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hey y'all ryan spreck here as you all

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know the summer on the skies podcast is

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always free to consume but it isn't free

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to create that's why i've started this

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somewhere in the skies patreon campaign

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on a monthly basis you give what you

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think the show is worth you'll be

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helping the show continue grow and to be

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something truly communal and remember

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there are rewards for each level of

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contribution and the list is only grown

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so please help somewhere in the skies

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now by becoming a patron to contribute

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and to learn more visit www.patreon.com

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backslash somewhere skies thank you for

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[Music]

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this is somewhere in the skies with ryan

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spread

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome to somewhere in the skies i'm

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your host ryan sprague

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by the time you'll be hearing this i'm

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on my way home from alien con which took

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place this past weekend in pasadena

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california

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it was an incredible event where i was

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able to reconnect with old friends and

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colleagues meet new ones and ask new

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questions about the ufo phenomenon and

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the ever-present question of whether or

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not we're alone in the universe

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i got to spend some valuable time with

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my good friend and now colleague dean

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aliotto i also got to see some really

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cool panels including one on the x-files

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which featured david duchovny and mitch

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palecki all in all the weekend was just

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so much fun and i had a blast and the

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turnout for my presentation was much

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more than i ever could have anticipated

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so that was pretty cool too

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i was able to conduct some interviews

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between all the craziness and i'll be

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sharing all of that with you in the very

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near future but for now let's get to

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he is no stranger to the show you may

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remember him from our two-part series

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somewhere in the whiskey yup that's

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right today i'm sharing a great

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interview from the archives with mj

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banayas we hear all about how we got

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involved in ufo studies his thoughts and

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theories on the topic and what role

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philosophy truly plays in the grand

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theater of the mind we call ufos

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my origin story um you know when i was

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starting out you know i did a lot of

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stuff in sort of the local community

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when it came to paranormal

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investigations and stuff like that like

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ghost hunting whatever you know the

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occasional uh

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the occasional bigfoot or when to go

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kind of thing i'm in canada so you know

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we we don't really have we have bigfoot

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here but they're not really you know

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we're more when to go people where i'm

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from but um you know did that kind of

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stuff and you know i found it great i

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found it fun but i didn't find it sort

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of as you know what i it wasn't my

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passion i'd always been a fan of the

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x-files and twilight zone and we had

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outer limits here in canada which was a

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cheesy version of the twilight zone oh

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yeah

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it was terrific but so really into that

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i just always was into

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the sort of culture of ufos and

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i always found it interesting um the

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sort of mysterious and murky world that

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it is and you know i met up with chris

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rakowski who's uh you know lives in the

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same city i do and we started chatting

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and

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i spoke to him before because i had a

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gentleman contact me concerning a an

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abduction situation through the

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paranormal group that i was with and it

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just sort of took off from there we sort

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of built a friendship and uh you know i

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started reading some of his stuff and i

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really started getting into it and then

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i decided to start writing for myself

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because i think i have i had a lot to

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say about sort of the state of ufology

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um you know where it is now i mean it's

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something that's been around for a long

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time and you know hasn't made

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significant progress in 60 something

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years you know i don't know so i guess

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my perspective is trying to bring that

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fresh

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world that is the ufo

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right right yeah and we'll definitely

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get into that uh state of mythology

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throughout this conversation mj it's

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funny you mentioned that sort of chris

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kind of took you under his wing i had a

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similar

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experience with peter robbins here in

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the us the ufo researcher um and it

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seems like that's sort of how it goes

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where you have like the young protege

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coming in and trying to uh you know get

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what they can from the the quote-unquote

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old guard of ufology um

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not by any means pulling a darth vader

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of such but uh

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you know sort of taking what we can from

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the old guard of ufology the history of

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ufos and move it forward so we'll we'll

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definitely propel in that way so when

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exactly did you start investigating ufos

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and writing about them what was sort of

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your first dive into

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ufo journalism i guess

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writing about it has been really recent

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um i did a few ufo investigations and

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it was mainly abductions um

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you know chris was really in in where

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where we are

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in canada chris is really uh the ufo guy

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um like he gets i don't know like

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transport canada sends him their files

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when they have ufo reports like he is mr

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ufo in this country so he was really

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handling that stuff it was more every

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once in a while you know we would get an

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abduction case and and he would sort of

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route us because ultimately you know who

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has the attack and the equipment to

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investigate potential abductions but you

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know ghost hunters right we have ir

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cameras we have um emf detectors you

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know we had all that stuff right so um

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you know we started dealing with with uh

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some people who had who had alleged

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abductions um you know and

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that was that was that was all well and

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good and and you know for personal

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reasons i sort of had to leave that kind

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of world behind whether it was just uh

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it was it was you know kind of getting a

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little too strange for me and and

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some people were definitely latching on

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you know they wanted to be more than

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just you know a client um you know they

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wanted sort of your friendship and and

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they wanted sort of psychological

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support and just like listen i'm not

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qualified at all to do this you know

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so uh you know it kind of got a little

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sticky i guess about a year ago a little

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little longer a year ago um i decided to

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join mufon um so i became a mufon field

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investigator

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about a year ago uh

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and that sort of officially launched me

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into the world of actually investigating

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like actual ufo sightings in relation to

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just dealing with abduction cases

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and then i started writing probably a

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couple months after that as i started to

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deal with

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some actual mufon cases and how mufon

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handled the ufo world um and

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and how

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other investigators were working and i

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guess you know i mean

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as i kind of

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delve deeper into the world i started to

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have a lot of concerns you know you

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start to sort of see the the this

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field that you're really interested in

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and it starts taking these awkward turns

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and you know i watched a lot of

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hanger one uh i think i commented on my

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blog once that is my favorite it's my

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favorite comedy on television you know

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and um you know

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that's kind of where i decided to start

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writing about it like i am i'm in no way

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sort of some

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debunker or hardline skeptic but um

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i think that there's a lot i think

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there's a lot of issues um in in ufology

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um and

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i think chris the first one to say that

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you know there's there's some weird

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stuff going on out there and and you

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know chris is definitely a man of

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science um and if it's not substantiated

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sort of by

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uh you know

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extraordinary evidence um then that

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extraordinary claim isn't you know he's

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not going to pay much attention to it

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because you know we really need the

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the scientific background and the

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scientific information there the data

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absolutely yeah i mean

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that you bring up a really good point um

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and that sort of ties into something mj

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i know you and i talked about

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um and you touched on briefly in one of

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your blogs which i'd also like to uh

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talk about that as well your new project

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you got going on but

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sort of

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i i believe it was um

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it came up when

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i did an interview with actually michael

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hanks our mutual colleague

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um and he brought up the issue of the

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difference between scientific study of

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ufology and more of a philosophical

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angle this issue came

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um came up after some quotes that he

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brought up from

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some of the leading scientists out there

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and i'd love to delve into this a little

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bit with you and get your thoughts do

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you see

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science or philosophy as one having more

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merit

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or so over the other one studying ufos

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you know this is this is a massive

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question i think this is what my blog is

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sort of tr is evolving into because it

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started out with me just sort of you

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know

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talking about ufological phenomena or or

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you know cases or whatever but it's very

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much

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becoming um sort of i think these two

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juggernauts and i don't think there

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necessarily is a separation between

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science and philosophy or theory i think

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that they're kind of they need each

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other right i think they need to sort of

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bolster each other because because

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scientific philosophy is is meaningless

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and i think philosophy without science

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is is

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useless right like they don't they sort

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of really really need to co-exist

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and um you know micah brought up during

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an interview and i wrote a blog post

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about it it was it was a great interview

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because he he raised some interesting

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questions um in regards to

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you know

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can science really help us solve the ufo

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phenomenon and i would say you know when

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you look at facebook when you look at

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the forums when you look at

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all the websites right that deal with

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ufos it really we're dealing with a lot

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of philosophy and a lot of theology

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right a lot of the discussion is about

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belief it's not about

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actual data um and i think

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00:10:19,430 --> 00:10:18,560
you know at this point right now i think

278
00:10:22,710 --> 00:10:19,440
some

279
00:10:25,590 --> 00:10:22,720
science is sort of um is impotent in

280
00:10:27,910 --> 00:10:25,600
helping solve the ufo phenomenon right

281
00:10:29,509 --> 00:10:27,920
now um i think it is a big question of

282
00:10:30,550 --> 00:10:29,519
philosophy it's a big question of theory

283
00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:30,560
because

284
00:10:33,829 --> 00:10:31,600
um

285
00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:33,839
you know what can science really talk

286
00:10:38,470 --> 00:10:36,320
about when it comes to ufos right ufos

287
00:10:42,750 --> 00:10:38,480
don't follow

288
00:10:44,470 --> 00:10:42,760
they don't they can't they're not

289
00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:44,480
reproducible you know in order for a

290
00:10:47,990 --> 00:10:46,480
claim that is to be scientific it has to

291
00:10:50,310 --> 00:10:48,000
be reproduced right we have to prove

292
00:10:52,150 --> 00:10:50,320
that we can sort of recreate this event

293
00:10:53,670 --> 00:10:52,160
over and over and over again test

294
00:10:55,509 --> 00:10:53,680
various theories against it test various

295
00:10:56,389 --> 00:10:55,519
hypotheses sorry against it

296
00:10:58,230 --> 00:10:56,399
and

297
00:11:00,710 --> 00:10:58,240
potentially get an answer to what this

298
00:11:02,949 --> 00:11:00,720
thing is right ufos don't do this right

299
00:11:04,949 --> 00:11:02,959
and i think science and i think the

300
00:11:06,389 --> 00:11:04,959
reason why there's this massive ufo

301
00:11:07,590 --> 00:11:06,399
taboo out there right why science

302
00:11:09,269 --> 00:11:07,600
doesn't talk about

303
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:09,279
about it and why you know people like

304
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,800
you and me ryan are cranks and crazies

305
00:11:14,550 --> 00:11:12,160
and lunatics

306
00:11:16,389 --> 00:11:14,560
is because science can't provide an

307
00:11:18,230 --> 00:11:16,399
answer right and i think i think science

308
00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:18,240
is frightened by this right i think that

309
00:11:22,470 --> 00:11:21,200
there is genuinely um

310
00:11:23,670 --> 00:11:22,480
this underlying concern i'm not saying

311
00:11:24,949 --> 00:11:23,680
scientists you know actually worry about

312
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:24,959
this and they go to bed at night

313
00:11:29,430 --> 00:11:27,600
panicked about ufos but i think they or

314
00:11:33,110 --> 00:11:29,440
i think the scientific community says

315
00:11:34,790 --> 00:11:33,120
you know listen we can't really prove it

316
00:11:38,069 --> 00:11:34,800
um and i think this puts a huge limit on

317
00:11:39,990 --> 00:11:38,079
science right um because ufos

318
00:11:41,590 --> 00:11:40,000
you know aren't they're paranormal but

319
00:11:43,910 --> 00:11:41,600
they're not right you know ufos tend to

320
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:43,920
leave once in a while trace evidence you

321
00:11:47,110 --> 00:11:45,680
know they show up on radar once in a

322
00:11:49,030 --> 00:11:47,120
while

323
00:11:51,430 --> 00:11:49,040
um they they leave imprints and and

324
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:51,440
depressions in the ground um you know

325
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:53,279
they have you know

326
00:11:57,269 --> 00:11:55,360
crop circles which uh you know sometimes

327
00:11:59,269 --> 00:11:57,279
obviously are human made but generally a

328
00:12:01,190 --> 00:11:59,279
lot of times there is sort of no

329
00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:01,200
explanation to what caused them um so

330
00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:02,079
well

331
00:12:05,350 --> 00:12:03,440
once in a while we get this weird moment

332
00:12:07,030 --> 00:12:05,360
where we have all of this actual

333
00:12:09,430 --> 00:12:07,040
physical evidence but science can't

334
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:09,440
provide an answer just to what it is and

335
00:12:14,150 --> 00:12:11,519
scientists i think hate

336
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:14,160
i don't know as an answer um so it's a

337
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:15,839
lot easier to say it doesn't exist

338
00:12:20,069 --> 00:12:18,480
exactly yeah and i mean we have

339
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:20,079
and that's not to say that scientists

340
00:12:24,389 --> 00:12:21,920
aren't interested yeah they're probably

341
00:12:27,269 --> 00:12:24,399
not going to bed you know with this

342
00:12:29,829 --> 00:12:27,279
conundrum keeping them up at night but

343
00:12:31,590 --> 00:12:29,839
uh we both i'm sure have spoken to many

344
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:31,600
scientists interested in the topic but

345
00:12:34,470 --> 00:12:32,880
like you said

346
00:12:36,310 --> 00:12:34,480
there is no

347
00:12:38,949 --> 00:12:36,320
repeated evidence for something like

348
00:12:41,269 --> 00:12:38,959
this once a ufo is spotted it's gone in

349
00:12:44,069 --> 00:12:41,279
an instant so how do you

350
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:44,079
track that uh how do you

351
00:12:48,710 --> 00:12:47,040
analyze data and how do you repeat it

352
00:12:50,870 --> 00:12:48,720
it's just it's simply

353
00:12:53,269 --> 00:12:50,880
not the thing and that's where like you

354
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:53,279
said philosophy comes into

355
00:12:59,350 --> 00:12:57,120
into the uh the realm of ufo studies and

356
00:13:01,990 --> 00:12:59,360
the dreamers are the ones we sort of

357
00:13:03,990 --> 00:13:02,000
depend on and that can be either a huge

358
00:13:07,190 --> 00:13:04,000
hindrance to the field or it can be the

359
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:07,200
only way to open it up for conversation

360
00:13:12,870 --> 00:13:09,760
so it's it's frustrating nonetheless but

361
00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:12,880
uh yeah you bring up many good points um

362
00:13:17,910 --> 00:13:14,160
in terms of

363
00:13:20,389 --> 00:13:17,920
of evidence or tracking on radar mj

364
00:13:22,230 --> 00:13:20,399
there is a very interesting case that

365
00:13:25,269 --> 00:13:22,240
happened in your neck of the woods i

366
00:13:28,550 --> 00:13:25,279
believe this was in 1967 the famous shag

367
00:13:31,430 --> 00:13:28,560
harbor ufo incident um are you are you

368
00:13:32,550 --> 00:13:31,440
at all familiar with this case

369
00:13:33,829 --> 00:13:32,560
oh

370
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,839
you know what this is you know people

371
00:13:36,310 --> 00:13:35,440
call this canada's roswell right this is

372
00:13:39,670 --> 00:13:36,320
the

373
00:13:41,990 --> 00:13:39,680
this is that that case that um you know

374
00:13:44,069 --> 00:13:42,000
people give a lot of credit to i think

375
00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:44,079
because of the amount of investigation

376
00:13:48,069 --> 00:13:45,680
there was because of the amount of

377
00:13:50,949 --> 00:13:48,079
witnesses there were

378
00:13:53,590 --> 00:13:50,959
testimony from people on the ground

379
00:13:55,750 --> 00:13:53,600
civilians and people you know on navy

380
00:13:57,509 --> 00:13:55,760
vessels actual military officers you

381
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,519
know people who are involved from sort

382
00:14:00,310 --> 00:13:59,040
of this whole

383
00:14:01,430 --> 00:14:00,320
massive

384
00:14:02,870 --> 00:14:01,440
spectrum

385
00:14:05,030 --> 00:14:02,880
um

386
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,040
it's it's a big case you know

387
00:14:08,470 --> 00:14:06,880
i personally you know i don't know what

388
00:14:10,150 --> 00:14:08,480
it is we can talk about i'd love to sort

389
00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:10,160
of get into this with you

390
00:14:13,670 --> 00:14:12,000
but you know it

391
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:13,680
is definitely one of those massive cases

392
00:14:17,990 --> 00:14:15,920
and 1967 is this weird year for canada i

393
00:14:20,949 --> 00:14:18,000
can be honest there are so many

394
00:14:23,509 --> 00:14:20,959
ufo reports and sightings and big

395
00:14:24,389 --> 00:14:23,519
cases in canada in 1967 it was like

396
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:24,399
something happened like something

397
00:14:28,230 --> 00:14:25,680
exploded and suddenly people were seeing

398
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,240
ufos and and things were crashing and

399
00:14:31,509 --> 00:14:30,000
you know there's a great case out of my

400
00:14:34,069 --> 00:14:31,519
neck of the woods called the falcon lake

401
00:14:37,189 --> 00:14:34,079
ufo incident uh where a guy got burned

402
00:14:38,790 --> 00:14:37,199
by a ufo i mean there's yeah i mean it

403
00:14:40,069 --> 00:14:38,800
you know left evidence right trace

404
00:14:42,389 --> 00:14:40,079
evidence and and it's one of those

405
00:14:44,150 --> 00:14:42,399
things um

406
00:14:45,910 --> 00:14:44,160
yeah great year for ufos and a great

407
00:14:47,590 --> 00:14:45,920
definitely incident the shag harbor ufo

408
00:14:49,030 --> 00:14:47,600
case yeah and i mean like you said

409
00:14:52,069 --> 00:14:49,040
that's that's very interesting that you

410
00:14:53,750 --> 00:14:52,079
sort of had a flap in 67 and we we

411
00:14:56,629 --> 00:14:53,760
wonder why these things happen i mean

412
00:14:58,310 --> 00:14:56,639
look at 1947 you know we didn't we

413
00:15:01,590 --> 00:14:58,320
didn't just have roswell like many

414
00:15:04,550 --> 00:15:01,600
people think i mean we had the

415
00:15:06,949 --> 00:15:04,560
first quote-unquote modern ufology case

416
00:15:09,590 --> 00:15:06,959
being kenneth arnold we had the maury

417
00:15:11,110 --> 00:15:09,600
island incident and you wonder why why

418
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,120
are these flaps happening in certain

419
00:15:16,230 --> 00:15:13,199
locations at this time is it some sort

420
00:15:19,269 --> 00:15:16,240
of mass hysteria uh have we opened the

421
00:15:21,189 --> 00:15:19,279
consciousness of the possibility of ufos

422
00:15:23,189 --> 00:15:21,199
inviting it in um

423
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,199
in terms of shag harbor right there you

424
00:15:31,110 --> 00:15:26,639
have almost this return of the the foo

425
00:15:33,189 --> 00:15:31,120
fighters these glowing orange orbs um

426
00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:33,199
sort of descending into the waters in

427
00:15:35,590 --> 00:15:34,320
canada

428
00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:35,600
so yeah what do you think about the

429
00:15:40,710 --> 00:15:38,160
whole idea of a flap mj i mean this this

430
00:15:41,509 --> 00:15:40,720
comes and goes all the time in ufology

431
00:15:43,350 --> 00:15:41,519
and

432
00:15:45,350 --> 00:15:43,360
what do you make of that

433
00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:45,360
you know it's it

434
00:15:49,910 --> 00:15:47,440
lapses are these interesting things

435
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,920
because you know it's tough right

436
00:15:53,790 --> 00:15:51,440
you know all

437
00:15:56,550 --> 00:15:53,800
are people actually seeing physical

438
00:15:58,389 --> 00:15:56,560
objects in the sky and whatever is

439
00:15:59,350 --> 00:15:58,399
controlling these objects assuming that

440
00:16:01,030 --> 00:15:59,360
you know their objects they're being

441
00:16:02,230 --> 00:16:01,040
controlled intelligently or whatever you

442
00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:02,240
know

443
00:16:05,269 --> 00:16:03,519
did they just

444
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,279
kind of show up for it for a few weeks

445
00:16:09,509 --> 00:16:07,680
or a few days or a few months or a year

446
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:09,519
and then suddenly they disappear and and

447
00:16:12,550 --> 00:16:11,199
you know are they you know kind of

448
00:16:13,990 --> 00:16:12,560
showing up

449
00:16:15,670 --> 00:16:14,000
and then deciding to hang out for a bit

450
00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:15,680
and then leave um

451
00:16:21,590 --> 00:16:17,600
or or is it like i don't say mass

452
00:16:24,389 --> 00:16:21,600
hysteria but is it sort of a cultural um

453
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:24,399
i don't know a build-up of of thinking

454
00:16:29,189 --> 00:16:26,720
um you know people see where people see

455
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:29,199
articles and reports and the radio they

456
00:16:32,470 --> 00:16:30,959
hear reports about ufos and then they

457
00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:32,480
start seeing lights in the sky so they

458
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:34,720
think well i'm seeing one too and you

459
00:16:38,949 --> 00:16:37,279
sort of get this progression of of

460
00:16:40,389 --> 00:16:38,959
visions of ufos that that aren't

461
00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:40,399
necessarily there or they're seeing

462
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:42,800
something but it's not

463
00:16:45,350 --> 00:16:44,000
you know intelligently controlled or

464
00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:45,360
anything it's just you know a random

465
00:16:49,670 --> 00:16:48,000
natural phenomenon in the sky um

466
00:16:51,670 --> 00:16:49,680
you know i can be honest it's i find it

467
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,680
tough to to talk about the idea of a

468
00:16:55,590 --> 00:16:53,279
flap because i don't think i necessarily

469
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:55,600
know where i stand on one or or i stand

470
00:17:01,749 --> 00:16:59,600
on the idea of of ufo flaps um

471
00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:01,759
yeah um

472
00:17:06,150 --> 00:17:04,400
it's a tough one yeah it is i mean and

473
00:17:08,309 --> 00:17:06,160
who's to say they're all connected or

474
00:17:09,750 --> 00:17:08,319
disconnected it's it's a case-to-case

475
00:17:12,870 --> 00:17:09,760
basis for sure

476
00:17:14,390 --> 00:17:12,880
and i think the idea of the flap is is

477
00:17:15,909 --> 00:17:14,400
you know it's not a scientific idea

478
00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:15,919
right it's not something that we can

479
00:17:20,230 --> 00:17:18,559
sort of um prove and reproduce

480
00:17:21,429 --> 00:17:20,240
yeah right it's very theological right

481
00:17:23,270 --> 00:17:21,439
like i think we're going to have a

482
00:17:24,470 --> 00:17:23,280
debate about you know whether we believe

483
00:17:25,669 --> 00:17:24,480
in them or not right not necessarily

484
00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:25,679
whether they're actually occurring or

485
00:17:29,110 --> 00:17:27,120
not

486
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,120
right yeah actually

487
00:17:33,909 --> 00:17:31,919
exactly i mean again it's it's what it's

488
00:17:36,390 --> 00:17:33,919
not whether or not it's

489
00:17:38,150 --> 00:17:36,400
it's occurring you know um it is

490
00:17:40,789 --> 00:17:38,160
happening it's just a matter of what it

491
00:17:41,669 --> 00:17:40,799
is and that's again another struggle we

492
00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:41,679
all

493
00:17:47,110 --> 00:17:44,240
have and um we sort of try to lump it in

494
00:17:49,990 --> 00:17:47,120
to this idea because it's our way of

495
00:17:51,590 --> 00:17:50,000
um dealing with it you know instead of

496
00:17:53,510 --> 00:17:51,600
from this could be from another

497
00:17:55,350 --> 00:17:53,520
dimension another time another world

498
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,360
let's throw it all together in a nuts

499
00:17:59,270 --> 00:17:57,120
and bolts sort of way

500
00:18:00,870 --> 00:17:59,280
and say that these are quote unquote

501
00:18:02,150 --> 00:18:00,880
non-human

502
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:02,160
piloted

503
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:03,280
craft

504
00:18:07,510 --> 00:18:05,760
visiting our planet i mean

505
00:18:10,150 --> 00:18:07,520
it's a sweeping assumption to say the

506
00:18:11,190 --> 00:18:10,160
least oh 100 and i think

507
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:11,200
that you know i think people and i think

508
00:18:14,630 --> 00:18:12,720
this is a big reason why there is such a

509
00:18:16,390 --> 00:18:14,640
ufo taboo out there right why the the

510
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:16,400
mainstream media you know whenever they

511
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,000
report on a ufo sighting there's always

512
00:18:21,190 --> 00:18:19,679
that kind of rye smile on the snicker

513
00:18:23,590 --> 00:18:21,200
right on the on the anchor's face or

514
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,600
whatever right um i think that

515
00:18:28,789 --> 00:18:25,919
for for people

516
00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:28,799
in general right we view sort of

517
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:30,640
ourselves as

518
00:18:35,350 --> 00:18:33,440
um you know we have complete control in

519
00:18:36,870 --> 00:18:35,360
essence over this planet

520
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:36,880
right we are sort of the be-all and the

521
00:18:40,470 --> 00:18:38,480
end-all of

522
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,480
um intelligence on this planet right you

523
00:18:43,909 --> 00:18:42,720
know every single animal is generally

524
00:18:45,510 --> 00:18:43,919
you know we can control it we can

525
00:18:46,710 --> 00:18:45,520
generally control mother nature once in

526
00:18:48,789 --> 00:18:46,720
a while you know if we need to move a

527
00:18:50,390 --> 00:18:48,799
river we can move a river um you know if

528
00:18:51,510 --> 00:18:50,400
we need to build a hill we can build a

529
00:18:53,190 --> 00:18:51,520
hill you know once in a while mother

530
00:18:54,310 --> 00:18:53,200
nature throws us a curveball but she

531
00:18:56,549 --> 00:18:54,320
doesn't do it on purpose you know she

532
00:18:58,150 --> 00:18:56,559
just kind of is

533
00:18:59,590 --> 00:18:58,160
um and i think you know we as humans

534
00:19:02,310 --> 00:18:59,600
kind of think you know we kind of run

535
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,320
the show here and i think that the the

536
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:03,440
um

537
00:19:08,470 --> 00:19:06,559
the idea of something else right

538
00:19:09,750 --> 00:19:08,480
intelligently controlling objects in our

539
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:09,760
skies

540
00:19:13,190 --> 00:19:11,440
it's i think it's

541
00:19:14,870 --> 00:19:13,200
really quite a frightening concept not

542
00:19:16,230 --> 00:19:14,880
just physically frightening you know

543
00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:16,240
we're afraid of being invaded or

544
00:19:20,070 --> 00:19:17,760
whatever other movie

545
00:19:23,590 --> 00:19:20,080
alien trope there is um i think it

546
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:23,600
really threatens our uh sort of sense

547
00:19:28,230 --> 00:19:26,640
of control and i think this is uh you

548
00:19:29,750 --> 00:19:28,240
know something some philosophy that

549
00:19:31,990 --> 00:19:29,760
exists within us right some some innate

550
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:32,000
desire to be in control to have power

551
00:19:37,909 --> 00:19:35,840
and i think the idea of uh the

552
00:19:39,909 --> 00:19:37,919
intelligent other and only that the

553
00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:39,919
intelligent other that also thinks the

554
00:19:44,549 --> 00:19:42,400
same way we do in that you know i can be

555
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:44,559
in charge right i have agency over the

556
00:19:49,430 --> 00:19:47,679
world around me um you know i

557
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:49,440
can be in control uh you know it would

558
00:19:51,909 --> 00:19:50,640
be frightening to think that there's

559
00:19:53,830 --> 00:19:51,919
another

560
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:53,840
group out there that

561
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:57,039
isn't us but has free will and thinks

562
00:20:01,830 --> 00:20:00,080
and um wants to be

563
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,840
in control of the situation and i think

564
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:03,280
this is this is really problematic and i

565
00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,559
think you know when we kind of think

566
00:20:08,870 --> 00:20:06,960
about how people deal with ufos you know

567
00:20:10,390 --> 00:20:08,880
i don't i think people generally don't

568
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:10,400
want to think there's something actually

569
00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:12,000
going on right we're okay to kind of

570
00:20:14,710 --> 00:20:13,360
believe in it and snicker about it and

571
00:20:16,390 --> 00:20:14,720
watch episodes of the x-files and star

572
00:20:18,710 --> 00:20:16,400
trek but we don't necessarily want to

573
00:20:20,470 --> 00:20:18,720
kind of deal with this potential

574
00:20:22,150 --> 00:20:20,480
potential potential i say potential i'm

575
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:22,160
not saying there are there's anything

576
00:20:25,909 --> 00:20:24,720
out there but potential threat that you

577
00:20:27,590 --> 00:20:25,919
know

578
00:20:30,070 --> 00:20:27,600
there's another intelligence out there

579
00:20:31,990 --> 00:20:30,080
and we would have to sort of

580
00:20:33,750 --> 00:20:32,000
deal with this especially if this other

581
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:33,760
showed up on our planet and said you

582
00:20:36,230 --> 00:20:35,200
know we're going to share this place now

583
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,240
i mean this

584
00:20:41,190 --> 00:20:39,120
frost would be like this would totally

585
00:20:43,510 --> 00:20:41,200
change everything um it would be an

586
00:20:47,909 --> 00:20:43,520
entire philosophical philosophical shift

587
00:20:49,590 --> 00:20:47,919
in thinking of uh you know what is uh

588
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:49,600
our agency on this planet are we

589
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,360
actually in control

590
00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:53,760
so i think you know when we talk about

591
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,440
flaps and we talk about the science

592
00:20:58,710 --> 00:20:57,120
versus the philosophy of ufos i'm not

593
00:20:59,990 --> 00:20:58,720
sure if science really wants to deal

594
00:21:02,549 --> 00:21:00,000
with ufos

595
00:21:03,430 --> 00:21:02,559
because of the the potential

596
00:21:07,990 --> 00:21:03,440
um

597
00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,000
situation that would that would arise or

598
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:10,240
could arise and and like i said it's not

599
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:11,520
just physical it's not a threat of

600
00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,840
invasion or whatever it's

601
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,440
like i said i think it's more innate

602
00:21:19,029 --> 00:21:16,960
it's more um

603
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:19,039
that which drives us as humans on this

604
00:21:22,630 --> 00:21:21,600
planet right this this instinct to be in

605
00:21:25,669 --> 00:21:22,640
control

606
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:25,679
exactly i mean and it says so much more

607
00:21:29,590 --> 00:21:27,440
about us than it does

608
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:29,600
this potential other

609
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:30,640
other

610
00:21:38,710 --> 00:21:36,480
off that mj you you shared a video on

611
00:21:41,190 --> 00:21:38,720
your blog um also let's give the name of

612
00:21:42,710 --> 00:21:41,200
the blog i don't think we've given it

613
00:21:44,789 --> 00:21:42,720
a course

614
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,799
you need a plug yeah let's let's do it

615
00:21:49,909 --> 00:21:47,280
um you have a a new blog that you're

616
00:21:52,390 --> 00:21:49,919
running with chris um another canadian

617
00:21:54,470 --> 00:21:52,400
ufo researcher what's that called yeah

618
00:21:58,630 --> 00:21:54,480
so our blog is

619
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,630
t-e-r-r-a

620
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:04,789
o-b-s-c-u-r-a dot net um i think you can

621
00:22:09,149 --> 00:22:06,400
google us we're like

622
00:22:11,669 --> 00:22:09,159
we're not the first hit but that's okay

623
00:22:12,470 --> 00:22:11,679
obscura.net and it's um it's sort of

624
00:22:14,630 --> 00:22:12,480
where

625
00:22:16,470 --> 00:22:14,640
culture theory and high strangeness meet

626
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:16,480
it's a sort of a critical

627
00:22:21,590 --> 00:22:19,200
theory approach to ufology um

628
00:22:23,750 --> 00:22:21,600
so we sort of look at

629
00:22:25,190 --> 00:22:23,760
not necessarily uh the question of do

630
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:25,200
you believe in ufos which i think is

631
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:26,400
actually a waste of time

632
00:22:29,909 --> 00:22:28,720
really we're thinking we talk about

633
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:29,919
why

634
00:22:35,270 --> 00:22:32,799
don't uh governments and

635
00:22:36,789 --> 00:22:35,280
academics and scientists study ufos what

636
00:22:38,549 --> 00:22:36,799
are the the

637
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:38,559
uh what are the philosophies that exist

638
00:22:43,750 --> 00:22:40,240
behind

639
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:43,760
the lack of attention for ufos uh um so

640
00:22:47,590 --> 00:22:46,159
yeah i hope people read i i realize i'm

641
00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:47,600
really enjoying writing it because it's

642
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:49,840
it's definitely my academic background

643
00:22:54,950 --> 00:22:52,640
uh mixing with um ufos which are the

644
00:22:56,710 --> 00:22:54,960
coolest thing in the world yeah

645
00:22:59,350 --> 00:22:56,720
agreed my man um

646
00:23:01,029 --> 00:22:59,360
well uh yeah i absolutely love it i get

647
00:23:03,750 --> 00:23:01,039
so excited when i see you posting

648
00:23:06,390 --> 00:23:03,760
something new um so i definitely suggest

649
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,400
listening listeners check that out um

650
00:23:11,909 --> 00:23:09,200
you did post on the blog uh not too long

651
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:11,919
ago about a video that ufo historian

652
00:23:15,990 --> 00:23:13,440
richard dolan

653
00:23:17,270 --> 00:23:16,000
um was interviewed about disclosure so

654
00:23:19,750 --> 00:23:17,280
let's sort of get into that

655
00:23:21,909 --> 00:23:19,760
quote-unquote potential of something

656
00:23:22,870 --> 00:23:21,919
coming to this planet or if it already

657
00:23:24,789 --> 00:23:22,880
has

658
00:23:26,549 --> 00:23:24,799
um

659
00:23:28,549 --> 00:23:26,559
what do you make of the idea of

660
00:23:31,430 --> 00:23:28,559
disclosure like you said it would be a

661
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:31,440
complete paradigm shift a perception

662
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:32,400
shift

663
00:23:37,590 --> 00:23:35,039
what do you make of the possibility of a

664
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:37,600
disclosure of a non-human intelligence

665
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:42,950
so you're asking me you're asking me i'm

666
00:23:46,950 --> 00:23:44,799
assuming there is something to disclose

667
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,960
let's say let's say they're assuming

668
00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:49,120
there is something to disclose um

669
00:23:55,110 --> 00:23:52,400
whether that comes again forcefully by

670
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:55,120
this intelligence to the planet or

671
00:24:00,230 --> 00:23:57,120
for some

672
00:24:02,710 --> 00:24:00,240
improbable reason some government body

673
00:24:05,350 --> 00:24:02,720
discloses the truth which i think we can

674
00:24:07,669 --> 00:24:05,360
both agree probably will never happen um

675
00:24:10,149 --> 00:24:07,679
what would that disclosure entail what

676
00:24:12,470 --> 00:24:10,159
would it do to humanity

677
00:24:14,549 --> 00:24:12,480
right so you know i think we i think i

678
00:24:16,310 --> 00:24:14,559
think you know richard dolan you know i

679
00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:16,320
love the guy i think he kind of hits the

680
00:24:19,830 --> 00:24:18,080
nail on the head in this video of i

681
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:19,840
think what it would do politically i

682
00:24:23,590 --> 00:24:21,039
think there would be

683
00:24:25,510 --> 00:24:23,600
a lot of problems i think you'd

684
00:24:28,710 --> 00:24:25,520
have as he mentions in his interview you

685
00:24:29,990 --> 00:24:28,720
know you'd have this massive shift in in

686
00:24:31,750 --> 00:24:30,000
uh you know right i think you'd have a

687
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:31,760
right wing sort of fundamentalism

688
00:24:35,510 --> 00:24:33,039
occurring where people you know the

689
00:24:36,789 --> 00:24:35,520
heavy xenophobia you know you know there

690
00:24:38,630 --> 00:24:36,799
would be i think he said there'd be

691
00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:38,640
occupy area 51 or

692
00:24:40,710 --> 00:24:39,440
something like that i think that's a

693
00:24:42,070 --> 00:24:40,720
little silly but i think you know you

694
00:24:44,070 --> 00:24:42,080
would definitely have a lot of protests

695
00:24:45,909 --> 00:24:44,080
you would have a lot of um people saying

696
00:24:47,830 --> 00:24:45,919
you know go away right you know humanity

697
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:47,840
doesn't want you uh and then i think

698
00:24:49,909 --> 00:24:48,960
you'd have the other side right you'd

699
00:24:51,510 --> 00:24:49,919
have people who would probably be

700
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:51,520
willing to embrace

701
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,679
um this

702
00:24:58,830 --> 00:24:55,679
uh reality that that you know we are

703
00:25:01,830 --> 00:24:58,840
simply a voice in a chorus of of uh

704
00:25:03,190 --> 00:25:01,840
others um that sort of occupy you know

705
00:25:06,789 --> 00:25:03,200
the same time and space we do let's say

706
00:25:07,990 --> 00:25:06,799
or universe or galaxy or whatever um

707
00:25:09,590 --> 00:25:08,000
so i think he hits a nail on the head

708
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:09,600
there i think for humans though in

709
00:25:13,590 --> 00:25:11,600
general i i don't think

710
00:25:16,390 --> 00:25:13,600
i think sorry we would have like like i

711
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:16,400
said before this this really fundamental

712
00:25:20,789 --> 00:25:17,760
upset

713
00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:20,799
to the way we perceive ourselves um you

714
00:25:25,350 --> 00:25:23,520
know we kind of you know you and i

715
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,360
are both westerners we grew up in north

716
00:25:29,590 --> 00:25:27,440
america you know a good western liberal

717
00:25:32,789 --> 00:25:29,600
capitalist democracy bless it you know

718
00:25:34,149 --> 00:25:32,799
um for all of its faults um and i think

719
00:25:35,909 --> 00:25:34,159
you know we

720
00:25:37,510 --> 00:25:35,919
as we grow up in in our little social

721
00:25:39,430 --> 00:25:37,520
world you know we go to school and and

722
00:25:41,269 --> 00:25:39,440
our teachers tell us that you know you

723
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:41,279
need to get a good job to be happy and

724
00:25:46,870 --> 00:25:44,640
you need to live your life uh in

725
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:46,880
it you know in a good capitalist way and

726
00:25:49,269 --> 00:25:48,240
um you know you definitely don't want to

727
00:25:50,390 --> 00:25:49,279
work for broadway because there's no

728
00:25:52,789 --> 00:25:50,400
money there

729
00:25:57,269 --> 00:25:52,799
just messing with you buddy

730
00:26:02,310 --> 00:25:59,750
i'm a huge fan of theater actually my

731
00:26:03,190 --> 00:26:02,320
wife is is a theater major and then oh

732
00:26:04,310 --> 00:26:03,200
wow

733
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:04,320
and then she teaches and she teaches

734
00:26:08,070 --> 00:26:06,400
theater so i you know i'm i i'm on your

735
00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:08,080
side don't worry but

736
00:26:11,909 --> 00:26:09,760
you you are right there there's no money

737
00:26:13,830 --> 00:26:11,919
in it but moving no i know yeah that's

738
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:13,840
what i do

739
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:16,159
exactly right because ufology makes us

740
00:26:18,950 --> 00:26:17,679
like oh

741
00:26:20,950 --> 00:26:18,960
my goodness

742
00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:20,960
all those google ads yeah

743
00:26:25,269 --> 00:26:22,960
at a what half a cent uh

744
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:25,279
right every thousand likes

745
00:26:28,470 --> 00:26:27,120
i think you would have this this

746
00:26:30,870 --> 00:26:28,480
horrible

747
00:26:32,710 --> 00:26:30,880
realization and and um you know the term

748
00:26:34,830 --> 00:26:32,720
i'm sort of that i have been dancing

749
00:26:36,470 --> 00:26:34,840
around is something called anthro

750
00:26:40,710 --> 00:26:36,480
anthropocentrism

751
00:26:41,590 --> 00:26:40,720
which is um the idea that humans

752
00:26:42,390 --> 00:26:41,600
are

753
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:42,400
um

754
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:43,919
sort of

755
00:26:47,430 --> 00:26:45,760
the only things on this planet that have

756
00:26:48,870 --> 00:26:47,440
agency right you know animals don't

757
00:26:50,390 --> 00:26:48,880
really you know we kind of control

758
00:26:52,070 --> 00:26:50,400
animals on this planet right and there's

759
00:26:53,510 --> 00:26:52,080
nothing really else you know god you

760
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,520
know while i'm sure you know maybe

761
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,360
there's a god i don't know but

762
00:26:59,350 --> 00:26:57,679
god probably has free will but

763
00:27:00,710 --> 00:26:59,360
ultimately he doesn't really do anything

764
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:00,720
you know he doesn't walk around on our

765
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:02,559
planet and like you know send

766
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:05,120
thunderbolts at us or anything um so you

767
00:27:09,590 --> 00:27:06,960
know at the end of the day humans are

768
00:27:11,350 --> 00:27:09,600
sort of that which control

769
00:27:13,110 --> 00:27:11,360
earth and and our world around us you

770
00:27:15,029 --> 00:27:13,120
know if we want it we can do it if we

771
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:15,039
take enough money

772
00:27:19,510 --> 00:27:17,200
versus wealth treasure talent and throw

773
00:27:21,110 --> 00:27:19,520
it at a problem we can generally solve

774
00:27:23,750 --> 00:27:21,120
it

775
00:27:27,269 --> 00:27:23,760
um and i think that this the idea of

776
00:27:30,390 --> 00:27:27,279
disclosure would upset this concept

777
00:27:32,950 --> 00:27:30,400
right we no longer be what's sort of the

778
00:27:36,149 --> 00:27:32,960
pinnacle of intelligence um there would

779
00:27:39,269 --> 00:27:36,159
be something potentially that is

780
00:27:42,390 --> 00:27:39,279
uh bigger smarter um

781
00:27:44,549 --> 00:27:42,400
better than us um and and this is really

782
00:27:45,750 --> 00:27:44,559
i think frightening for people um and

783
00:27:48,230 --> 00:27:45,760
humans aren't generally good with the

784
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,240
unknown and the other anyway i mean you

785
00:27:53,990 --> 00:27:51,120
look at um you know racial issues or you

786
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:54,000
look at issues you know uh with um you

787
00:27:57,190 --> 00:27:55,919
know terrorism out of the middle east or

788
00:28:01,269 --> 00:27:57,200
or

789
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:01,279
problems on this planet that

790
00:28:06,230 --> 00:28:04,799
humans we generally fear the unknown we

791
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:06,240
fear what we don't understand we fear

792
00:28:09,430 --> 00:28:07,440
the other because we don't necessarily

793
00:28:10,950 --> 00:28:09,440
know how the other thinks um and and

794
00:28:12,310 --> 00:28:10,960
this would be compounded by a disclosure

795
00:28:13,990 --> 00:28:12,320
right because

796
00:28:15,590 --> 00:28:14,000
because then not only

797
00:28:18,470 --> 00:28:15,600
are these others they're not human

798
00:28:20,549 --> 00:28:18,480
others right they don't think like us

799
00:28:21,830 --> 00:28:20,559
um they don't necessarily think the same

800
00:28:23,669 --> 00:28:21,840
import you know they don't think what we

801
00:28:25,269 --> 00:28:23,679
think is important is actually important

802
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,279
um so

803
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:27,840
i i think we would have this huge upset

804
00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:30,320
to the system um not only government and

805
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,240
statutory but

806
00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:33,840
um i think personally and

807
00:28:37,590 --> 00:28:35,760
philosophically and and it would really

808
00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:37,600
force us to question

809
00:28:46,389 --> 00:28:40,080
what our

810
00:28:48,789 --> 00:28:46,399
yeah you uh you said it so succinctly

811
00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:48,799
man i mean this this phenomenon in

812
00:28:54,149 --> 00:28:52,000
general uh despite disclosure it says so

813
00:28:58,310 --> 00:28:54,159
much more about us than whatever it

814
00:29:01,190 --> 00:28:58,320
actually is and i find myself you know

815
00:29:03,110 --> 00:29:01,200
circling that conundrum constantly you

816
00:29:04,950 --> 00:29:03,120
know what is

817
00:29:08,950 --> 00:29:04,960
this ufo

818
00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:08,960
uh phenomenon um and how is that

819
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:10,960
different from the quote unquote ufo

820
00:29:15,590 --> 00:29:13,840
culture that we sort of self-proclaimed

821
00:29:17,830 --> 00:29:15,600
and seeded and

822
00:29:21,510 --> 00:29:17,840
seen go in so many different directions

823
00:29:23,669 --> 00:29:21,520
um there was a quote by uh james carrion

824
00:29:26,870 --> 00:29:23,679
who used to be i believe the executive

825
00:29:29,430 --> 00:29:26,880
director of mufon um okay i i think i

826
00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,440
i'm personally not a member so i uh

827
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:31,200
i'm not too in tune with the history of

828
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:33,440
mufon um but that being said he once

829
00:29:38,389 --> 00:29:35,440
said that

830
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:38,399
therein lies the problem with ufology

831
00:29:43,430 --> 00:29:40,960
and ufologists they race after every

832
00:29:45,750 --> 00:29:43,440
case every witness every shred of

833
00:29:47,190 --> 00:29:45,760
evidence regardless of providence that

834
00:29:49,269 --> 00:29:47,200
will help prove

835
00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:49,279
what remains in their bucket but will

836
00:29:55,110 --> 00:29:52,000
ignore all evidence to the contrary if

837
00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:55,120
we examine what the ufo bucket really is

838
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:57,760
it is an egocentric belief

839
00:30:02,789 --> 00:30:00,480
that we humans are so interesting in our

840
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,799
planet so alluring that other

841
00:30:08,389 --> 00:30:05,360
civilizations for any number of reasons

842
00:30:10,549 --> 00:30:08,399
can't help but to visit us very

843
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,559
interesting quote um the reason i pulled

844
00:30:14,549 --> 00:30:12,720
that out is because it sort of ties

845
00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:14,559
exactly into what we're talking about

846
00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:17,760
you know are we worth coming here

847
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,880
and monitoring are we worth looking at

848
00:30:26,230 --> 00:30:22,559
for some sort of

849
00:30:28,470 --> 00:30:26,240
cosmic uh galactic federation as it were

850
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:28,480
like you said we have so many issues

851
00:30:33,029 --> 00:30:30,720
here on our own planet if another

852
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:33,039
intelligence is visiting

853
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,080
um

854
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:36,240
they're probably on their way out man i

855
00:30:39,590 --> 00:30:38,080
mean sort of looking at what we're doing

856
00:30:41,510 --> 00:30:39,600
they don't want anything to do with it

857
00:30:43,029 --> 00:30:41,520
again this is all hypothetical of course

858
00:30:44,630 --> 00:30:43,039
yeah you know from you know and it's

859
00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:44,640
funny because you know

860
00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:46,399
that same argument the quote that you

861
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,880
cited you know skeptics will often use

862
00:30:51,190 --> 00:30:50,399
this to their advantage too they'll say

863
00:30:52,230 --> 00:30:51,200
well you know they would have just made

864
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:52,240
themselves known already right they

865
00:30:55,190 --> 00:30:53,600
would have landed on the white

866
00:30:56,630 --> 00:30:55,200
house lawn or something

867
00:30:58,230 --> 00:30:56,640
um as if

868
00:30:59,590 --> 00:30:58,240
the united states is some bastion of

869
00:31:01,110 --> 00:30:59,600
like everything i'm sorry no offense

870
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,120
america i love you guys

871
00:31:05,590 --> 00:31:04,320
but you know come on um so you know we

872
00:31:06,950 --> 00:31:05,600
have this you know both skeptics and

873
00:31:08,789 --> 00:31:06,960
believers you know say you know all

874
00:31:09,830 --> 00:31:08,799
humanity you know the skeptics say they

875
00:31:11,510 --> 00:31:09,840
would have shown up already and they

876
00:31:12,870 --> 00:31:11,520
would have made themselves known here we

877
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:12,880
are

878
00:31:17,510 --> 00:31:15,679
technology with you welcome to the

879
00:31:19,830 --> 00:31:17,520
united federation of planets piccard is

880
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,840
you know on the bridge

881
00:31:23,909 --> 00:31:21,919
and you know the believers i think you

882
00:31:26,789 --> 00:31:23,919
know like you say you're right there's

883
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,799
this fascination with you know

884
00:31:29,750 --> 00:31:28,880
and maybe it's a fear i don't know

885
00:31:32,389 --> 00:31:29,760
we

886
00:31:35,029 --> 00:31:32,399
can't be alone right it's this fear of

887
00:31:35,990 --> 00:31:35,039
loneliness um but it's weird because you

888
00:31:39,430 --> 00:31:36,000
know

889
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,440
alone because we don't want something

890
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,799
horrible to come and invade us and

891
00:31:43,830 --> 00:31:42,720
exterminate us but we also you know

892
00:31:45,509 --> 00:31:43,840
don't we

893
00:31:47,029 --> 00:31:45,519
we want them to also be kind of nice too

894
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:47,039
like you know we want like the beginning

895
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:48,240
of mars attacks but we don't want the

896
00:31:50,630 --> 00:31:49,440
end of mars attacks you know we want

897
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:50,640
them to show up and it's be this

898
00:31:55,110 --> 00:31:53,039
beautiful ceremony and then you know all

899
00:31:56,470 --> 00:31:55,120
the guns come out right um

900
00:31:58,710 --> 00:31:56,480
i think the quote is interesting and i

901
00:32:02,310 --> 00:31:58,720
think that it came from a mufon director

902
00:32:03,509 --> 00:32:02,320
is interesting too because i think mufon

903
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:03,519
yeah again

904
00:32:09,430 --> 00:32:06,799
i i disclaimer i'm a member of mufon

905
00:32:11,110 --> 00:32:09,440
i love mufon thank you for letting me

906
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:11,120
be thank you for

907
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:14,320
letting me be an investigator um but i

908
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,200
think mufon and and i think

909
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:18,960
the the quote is correct in saying that

910
00:32:24,389 --> 00:32:21,600
you know every single shred of evidence

911
00:32:26,950 --> 00:32:24,399
every single little piece is is is made

912
00:32:28,230 --> 00:32:26,960
to fit into the puzzle right um and the

913
00:32:29,509 --> 00:32:28,240
problem is a lot of those pieces don't

914
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:29,519
fit at all they're actually useless

915
00:32:32,470 --> 00:32:31,200
pieces they're they're um they're not

916
00:32:33,590 --> 00:32:32,480
even the right puzzle you're you're

917
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:33,600
borrowing pieces from other puzzles and

918
00:32:36,870 --> 00:32:35,039
you're jamming them into the ufo

919
00:32:38,149 --> 00:32:36,880
ufological puzzle like you know how the

920
00:32:39,669 --> 00:32:38,159
kids right they make the puzzle pieces

921
00:32:40,950 --> 00:32:39,679
fit right they kind of put the pieces

922
00:32:42,549 --> 00:32:40,960
together they're hammering it on with

923
00:32:44,470 --> 00:32:42,559
their fists um i think that's kind of

924
00:32:45,830 --> 00:32:44,480
what's going on and and i think

925
00:32:47,350 --> 00:32:45,840
i think mufon and mufon field

926
00:32:49,110 --> 00:32:47,360
investigators definitely play a role in

927
00:32:50,470 --> 00:32:49,120
this right um

928
00:32:52,149 --> 00:32:50,480
you look at the amount of move on field

929
00:32:53,509 --> 00:32:52,159
investigators who are who are believers

930
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,519
themselves right

931
00:32:58,230 --> 00:32:55,600
or who have had experiences themselves

932
00:33:00,230 --> 00:32:58,240
that they want answers for um you know i

933
00:33:02,789 --> 00:33:00,240
would say a significant chunk of the

934
00:33:06,350 --> 00:33:02,799
ranks of mufon are people who have had

935
00:33:09,350 --> 00:33:06,360
experiences or are believers already in

936
00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:09,360
intelligent beings others visiting our

937
00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:10,799
planet right and i think that this is a

938
00:33:14,950 --> 00:33:12,080
dangerous position to be in because

939
00:33:16,870 --> 00:33:14,960
ufology is not a belief in alien life

940
00:33:19,269 --> 00:33:16,880
right and i think that this is what

941
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:19,279
often gets muddied here exactly right

942
00:33:22,230 --> 00:33:20,880
this is why in the news you know

943
00:33:23,590 --> 00:33:22,240
whenever you get interviewed

944
00:33:24,630 --> 00:33:23,600
uh in the news people you know the news

945
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:24,640
anchor was asked well do you believe in

946
00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,080
ufos and it's like what are you asking

947
00:33:31,110 --> 00:33:28,080
me right are you asking me do i believe

948
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:31,120
in things in the sky that people see

949
00:33:34,549 --> 00:33:32,720
and they can't make sense of yeah of

950
00:33:36,230 --> 00:33:34,559
course it happens all the time we all

951
00:33:37,750 --> 00:33:36,240
experience these weird lights in the sky

952
00:33:38,789 --> 00:33:37,760
or something and upon further research

953
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,799
we figure out you know oh it's just the

954
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:40,799
space station or it was a satellite or

955
00:33:45,909 --> 00:33:42,960
whatever um or upon for the research we

956
00:33:48,870 --> 00:33:45,919
have no clue at all what it is uh and

957
00:33:51,269 --> 00:33:48,880
and that's a ufo right and i think

958
00:33:52,950 --> 00:33:51,279
that the other side of ufology

959
00:33:54,230 --> 00:33:52,960
jesus curious

960
00:33:55,750 --> 00:33:54,240
you know it's got to be aliens man it's

961
00:33:57,190 --> 00:33:55,760
got to be aliens it's got to be aliens

962
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:57,200
and

963
00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:00,399
this is not ufology this is a belief in

964
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:02,240
aliens and the other and and

965
00:34:05,509 --> 00:34:03,760
interdimensional beings or ultratesters

966
00:34:07,590 --> 00:34:05,519
or whatever you want to call them

967
00:34:10,869 --> 00:34:07,600
and the two are clumped together and

968
00:34:11,909 --> 00:34:10,879
they shouldn't be um and i think that

969
00:34:13,589 --> 00:34:11,919
one thing that definitely needs to

970
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:13,599
happen is the separation right a

971
00:34:17,829 --> 00:34:16,079
separation of ufology into the study of

972
00:34:20,710 --> 00:34:17,839
unidentified flying objects or

973
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:20,720
unidentified aerial phenomena and then

974
00:34:26,629 --> 00:34:23,679
the other side which is a belief

975
00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:26,639
a very much a theological belief in

976
00:34:30,149 --> 00:34:28,800
alien life

977
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:30,159
because there is no science right to

978
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:31,679
prove aliens really exist there's no

979
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:33,440
science to disprove it either

980
00:34:36,389 --> 00:34:34,480
and i'm a full

981
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:36,399
skeptic of science as much as i am of of

982
00:34:40,950 --> 00:34:38,399
the belief right i i don't think science

983
00:34:43,909 --> 00:34:40,960
is is you know necessarily um this

984
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:43,919
bastion of truth um that we all hope it

985
00:34:47,109 --> 00:34:45,679
is um and that our government tells us

986
00:34:49,109 --> 00:34:47,119
it is right

987
00:34:50,790 --> 00:34:49,119
but i think that there's definitely

988
00:34:52,230 --> 00:34:50,800
concern i think as you

989
00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:52,240
you follow just ryan i'm sure you agree

990
00:34:55,430 --> 00:34:53,440
with me here that you know we kind of

991
00:34:56,710 --> 00:34:55,440
get lumped into this pile right and

992
00:34:57,910 --> 00:34:56,720
people you know

993
00:34:59,589 --> 00:34:57,920
often ask like oh what do you do and you

994
00:35:01,670 --> 00:34:59,599
know i have my job and then i also kind

995
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,680
of you know study ufos and i'm into that

996
00:35:04,630 --> 00:35:03,520
kind of thing and people go oh yeah ufos

997
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:04,640
man the aliens they're here right you're

998
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:05,920
just like oh man

999
00:35:10,150 --> 00:35:06,960
no

1000
00:35:11,109 --> 00:35:10,160
i have to have this conversation with

1001
00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:11,119
everyone i mean right now well you know

1002
00:35:14,310 --> 00:35:12,560
you know ufo isn't necessarily alien it

1003
00:35:16,550 --> 00:35:14,320
could be a lot of things and yeah like a

1004
00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:16,560
trap yeah oh that is the first thing i

1005
00:35:20,870 --> 00:35:18,240
say to everyone you know when they say

1006
00:35:22,470 --> 00:35:20,880
what do you do with ufos yeah it's okay

1007
00:35:25,430 --> 00:35:22,480
i'm not talking about aliens i'm talking

1008
00:35:27,430 --> 00:35:25,440
about ufos that's right huge distinction

1009
00:35:28,829 --> 00:35:27,440
um and it's hard to separate people's

1010
00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:28,839
minds from that we've been so

1011
00:35:34,390 --> 00:35:32,480
conditioned by either hollywood or um

1012
00:35:37,030 --> 00:35:34,400
you know these quote unquote real

1013
00:35:41,910 --> 00:35:37,040
documentaries we see and it all sort of

1014
00:35:44,550 --> 00:35:41,920
ties into the mainstream you know i mean

1015
00:35:46,950 --> 00:35:44,560
i guess a lot of ufo researchers myself

1016
00:35:48,870 --> 00:35:46,960
and i am guessing you included

1017
00:35:51,030 --> 00:35:48,880
we've been taken to task for saying that

1018
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:51,040
the mainstream media is beginning to

1019
00:35:56,230 --> 00:35:53,839
take these topics more seriously now

1020
00:35:57,990 --> 00:35:56,240
more than ever um what are your thoughts

1021
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:58,000
on the perception of the ufo phenomenon

1022
00:36:02,630 --> 00:36:00,320
in the eyes of the mass public like you

1023
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,640
just said we get this all the freaking

1024
00:36:05,750 --> 00:36:03,839
time um

1025
00:36:08,470 --> 00:36:05,760
are we seeing a shift in consciousness

1026
00:36:10,630 --> 00:36:08,480
or is it just some more you know media

1027
00:36:13,190 --> 00:36:10,640
brainwashing in a sense

1028
00:36:14,870 --> 00:36:13,200
not to get too conspiratorial but

1029
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:14,880
oh well

1030
00:36:17,349 --> 00:36:16,000
i'm not i won't say i have like

1031
00:36:19,670 --> 00:36:17,359
conspiracies but you know i think the

1032
00:36:21,910 --> 00:36:19,680
media just reacts to us you know and

1033
00:36:24,310 --> 00:36:21,920
whatever we think right so you know the

1034
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:24,320
media kind of bounces off

1035
00:36:26,550 --> 00:36:25,359
the public and the public kind of

1036
00:36:28,630 --> 00:36:26,560
bounced off the media and we're sort of

1037
00:36:30,630 --> 00:36:28,640
in this weird symbiotic relationship but

1038
00:36:31,510 --> 00:36:30,640
um

1039
00:36:32,950 --> 00:36:31,520
you know

1040
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:32,960
it's really tough right it's really

1041
00:36:37,750 --> 00:36:35,040
tough because i think social media has

1042
00:36:39,430 --> 00:36:37,760
played a huge role in the ufo world

1043
00:36:41,030 --> 00:36:39,440
right everyone

1044
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:41,040
watches youtube everyone goes on well

1045
00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:42,160
not facebook is that still thing people

1046
00:36:45,349 --> 00:36:43,440
still go i still on facebook but i know

1047
00:36:46,390 --> 00:36:45,359
like young people don't

1048
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:46,400
you know everyone's on twitter and

1049
00:36:51,109 --> 00:36:49,040
instagram and um you know access to this

1050
00:36:53,270 --> 00:36:51,119
information is

1051
00:36:55,349 --> 00:36:53,280
hugely out there you know

1052
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,359
much more than before yeah and i think

1053
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,680
the media like the mainstream media like

1054
00:37:00,310 --> 00:36:58,800
you know

1055
00:37:01,670 --> 00:37:00,320
cnn fox all those

1056
00:37:03,109 --> 00:37:01,680
uh i don't

1057
00:37:04,390 --> 00:37:03,119
know what else there is other media

1058
00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:04,400
channels cnn and fox are kind of the

1059
00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,680
demons of the media world right we

1060
00:37:10,710 --> 00:37:07,200
always have to pick on them

1061
00:37:13,589 --> 00:37:10,720
i think that when we really look at the

1062
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,599
the the way the media perceives the ufo

1063
00:37:18,150 --> 00:37:15,440
as a thing as an object

1064
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:18,160
it's this weird mix of

1065
00:37:24,470 --> 00:37:22,079
one people who watch cnn and fox

1066
00:37:26,870 --> 00:37:24,480
to be you know believers right or they

1067
00:37:28,550 --> 00:37:26,880
believe in in some of this you know some

1068
00:37:32,390 --> 00:37:28,560
of these more paranormal things you know

1069
00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,400
whether it's ghosts or bigfoot or um

1070
00:37:35,510 --> 00:37:34,079
chupacabra whatever's out there right

1071
00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:35,520
yeah um

1072
00:37:39,109 --> 00:37:37,200
so i think you know cnn fox is

1073
00:37:40,230 --> 00:37:39,119
potentially catering to numbers

1074
00:37:41,910 --> 00:37:40,240
sometimes

1075
00:37:43,270 --> 00:37:41,920
when it comes to media coverage of ufo

1076
00:37:44,710 --> 00:37:43,280
reports but again you know you look at

1077
00:37:47,030 --> 00:37:44,720
the bulk of ufo stuff it doesn't get

1078
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:47,040
covered at all right it's only when

1079
00:37:50,790 --> 00:37:48,800
it's in some

1080
00:37:52,630 --> 00:37:50,800
big way you know um tom delong right

1081
00:37:53,990 --> 00:37:52,640
blink 182 you know when he started doing

1082
00:37:55,750 --> 00:37:54,000
his he got tons of coverage right

1083
00:37:58,470 --> 00:37:55,760
because you have a celebrity talking

1084
00:37:59,430 --> 00:37:58,480
about ufos which is kind of weird um

1085
00:38:00,790 --> 00:37:59,440
meanwhile i'm sure there's a lot of

1086
00:38:02,710 --> 00:38:00,800
celebrities out there that have ufo

1087
00:38:04,470 --> 00:38:02,720
fascinations they just can't talk about

1088
00:38:06,630 --> 00:38:04,480
them right because of the taboo it is

1089
00:38:08,550 --> 00:38:06,640
it's you know apart from him because you

1090
00:38:10,950 --> 00:38:08,560
know he's a punk rocker and i think that

1091
00:38:12,470 --> 00:38:10,960
he's allowed um socially to be into

1092
00:38:13,990 --> 00:38:12,480
weird stuff because he is a punk rocker

1093
00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:14,000
right you know taylor swift i don't know

1094
00:38:17,109 --> 00:38:15,680
if she has that freedom

1095
00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:17,119
i i think you know it's very easy to get

1096
00:38:22,069 --> 00:38:19,760
blackballed it's very easy to kind of be

1097
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:22,079
put on the crazy person list and then

1098
00:38:24,630 --> 00:38:23,200
you know people start avoiding your

1099
00:38:25,750 --> 00:38:24,640
phone calls and and then suddenly you

1100
00:38:27,190 --> 00:38:25,760
know you're not getting any more gigs

1101
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:27,200
and you know people start paying

1102
00:38:30,310 --> 00:38:28,720
attention to you because you're the ufo

1103
00:38:31,670 --> 00:38:30,320
nut yeah

1104
00:38:33,430 --> 00:38:31,680
so you know i don't really know how to

1105
00:38:35,030 --> 00:38:33,440
answer your question properly because i

1106
00:38:37,349 --> 00:38:35,040
don't know if the media is paying more

1107
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:37,359
attention or or because you know is the

1108
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,040
disclosure movement actually making

1109
00:38:42,310 --> 00:38:40,560
headway like

1110
00:38:44,150 --> 00:38:42,320
who knows right i mean you never know

1111
00:38:46,630 --> 00:38:44,160
crazier things have happened but you

1112
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:46,640
know i i don't necessarily think

1113
00:38:53,190 --> 00:38:50,400
it's occurring because there is some

1114
00:38:55,910 --> 00:38:53,200
massive shift in the way people think um

1115
00:38:57,990 --> 00:38:55,920
about ufos i think people

1116
00:39:00,710 --> 00:38:58,000
i think we're still sort of taught

1117
00:39:02,230 --> 00:39:00,720
and trained to use the conspiratorial

1118
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:02,240
term i

1119
00:39:05,750 --> 00:39:03,599
think we still sort of have this belief

1120
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:05,760
that ufos don't exist right or or sorry

1121
00:39:09,430 --> 00:39:07,599
not ufos that intelligently controlled

1122
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:09,440
ufos don't exist

1123
00:39:14,390 --> 00:39:11,760
and you know they're tongue-in-cheek and

1124
00:39:16,630 --> 00:39:14,400
therefore the x-files and and and you

1125
00:39:20,470 --> 00:39:16,640
know the history channel late at night

1126
00:39:22,550 --> 00:39:20,480
um and that's about it uh right so well

1127
00:39:24,630 --> 00:39:22,560
yeah i mean that that's a a great way to

1128
00:39:27,109 --> 00:39:24,640
put it i mean like we could even go back

1129
00:39:29,030 --> 00:39:27,119
to what you said of this fear of it

1130
00:39:30,950 --> 00:39:29,040
being a possibility so

1131
00:39:33,030 --> 00:39:30,960
of course sort of ignorance is bliss in

1132
00:39:34,630 --> 00:39:33,040
that sense we'll leave the idea to

1133
00:39:36,790 --> 00:39:34,640
hollywood to uh

1134
00:39:38,790 --> 00:39:36,800
perpetuate these sort of fictionalized

1135
00:39:39,589 --> 00:39:38,800
versions um and that's a you know it's a

1136
00:39:41,349 --> 00:39:39,599
terrible way of putting it right

1137
00:39:43,190 --> 00:39:41,359
ignorance is bliss because i think i

1138
00:39:45,030 --> 00:39:43,200
think ultimately any state like

1139
00:39:47,349 --> 00:39:45,040
government any any state or any

1140
00:39:50,950 --> 00:39:47,359
scientific organization

1141
00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:50,960
any you know university whatever

1142
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:53,680
um you know if if there is

1143
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,359
no solution to the problem right if

1144
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:56,720
there is no

1145
00:40:01,349 --> 00:39:58,800
fix if we can't identify it if we can't

1146
00:40:02,710 --> 00:40:01,359
measure it or track it or trace it

1147
00:40:04,310 --> 00:40:02,720
the last thing we want to

1148
00:40:07,109 --> 00:40:04,320
do is talk about it right yeah

1149
00:40:08,870 --> 00:40:07,119
especially especially if it does have

1150
00:40:10,710 --> 00:40:08,880
some physical

1151
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,720
properties right especially if it does

1152
00:40:15,589 --> 00:40:12,720
show up on radar or once in a while or

1153
00:40:17,270 --> 00:40:15,599
it does interfere in um you know

1154
00:40:19,430 --> 00:40:17,280
operations that the government is

1155
00:40:21,349 --> 00:40:19,440
concerned about such as nuclear test

1156
00:40:24,230 --> 00:40:21,359
sites or nuclear facilities rather you

1157
00:40:26,310 --> 00:40:24,240
know if it does leave

1158
00:40:28,310 --> 00:40:26,320
on the ground or burn marks or whatever

1159
00:40:29,990 --> 00:40:28,320
right if it leaves us trace evidence but

1160
00:40:32,950 --> 00:40:30,000
we can't

1161
00:40:34,790 --> 00:40:32,960
understand it it's a lot better to

1162
00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:34,800
say it doesn't exist or or it's just

1163
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,640
lunacy in regards to being like okay

1164
00:40:39,829 --> 00:40:38,240
we're going to study this and we have no

1165
00:40:41,990 --> 00:40:39,839
freaking clue what we're studying but

1166
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:42,000
we're going to try you know i

1167
00:40:45,190 --> 00:40:43,359
think the two have very different

1168
00:40:46,870 --> 00:40:45,200
messages i think politically right yeah

1169
00:40:48,710 --> 00:40:46,880
one is they don't exist we don't have to

1170
00:40:51,030 --> 00:40:48,720
deal with it fine move on and the other

1171
00:40:52,390 --> 00:40:51,040
one is you know listen we're our job is

1172
00:40:54,310 --> 00:40:52,400
to maintain power

1173
00:40:56,630 --> 00:40:54,320
uh as a government

1174
00:40:58,150 --> 00:40:56,640
or as a you know as a scientific body or

1175
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:58,160
whatever we're here to maintain control

1176
00:41:01,030 --> 00:40:59,119
and and we're here to make sure

1177
00:41:03,670 --> 00:41:01,040
everything makes sense and and we can't

1178
00:41:04,870 --> 00:41:03,680
make sense of this the i don't know is

1179
00:41:06,390 --> 00:41:04,880
frightening right it's one of the most

1180
00:41:07,910 --> 00:41:06,400
frightening things someone can say about

1181
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:07,920
something right i have no idea what's

1182
00:41:12,150 --> 00:41:10,079
going on is terrifying especially to

1183
00:41:14,790 --> 00:41:12,160
people um and the general public right

1184
00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,800
this would be like i said upsetting yeah

1185
00:41:18,150 --> 00:41:16,400
it would be a very awkward moment if you

1186
00:41:19,670 --> 00:41:18,160
know barack obama walks out and says

1187
00:41:21,109 --> 00:41:19,680
yeah listen we've been studying ufos for

1188
00:41:22,950 --> 00:41:21,119
a while and

1189
00:41:25,670 --> 00:41:22,960
we have no clue what they are i think

1190
00:41:27,270 --> 00:41:25,680
this would be an awful moment um cnn

1191
00:41:29,109 --> 00:41:27,280
would be having a

1192
00:41:31,430 --> 00:41:29,119
heyday it would be great

1193
00:41:33,990 --> 00:41:31,440
yeah and i mean the the whole the whole

1194
00:41:35,910 --> 00:41:34,000
idea of that we don't know mj it it sort

1195
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:35,920
of boils down to

1196
00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:38,720
if some governmental agency intelligence

1197
00:41:42,710 --> 00:41:41,520
agency or the military um again we like

1198
00:41:44,950 --> 00:41:42,720
to lump these things together but

1199
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:44,960
they're so compartmentalized you can't

1200
00:41:49,109 --> 00:41:47,040
even imagine um that being said

1201
00:41:51,030 --> 00:41:49,119
if the government

1202
00:41:53,270 --> 00:41:51,040
doesn't know what's going on

1203
00:41:55,829 --> 00:41:53,280
um they at least have the power to

1204
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:55,839
contain that information they do have

1205
00:42:00,230 --> 00:41:58,240
maintain it in a way that they see fit

1206
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:00,240
and you know we sort of run into that

1207
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:03,839
problem time and time again

1208
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,560
and i guess it sort of boils down to you

1209
00:42:11,750 --> 00:42:08,720
know

1210
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:11,760
those of us who seriously study

1211
00:42:17,829 --> 00:42:14,720
ufos are we going to stand up for what

1212
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:17,839
is actually true when it comes to this

1213
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:19,680
no matter what that truth may be it

1214
00:42:24,309 --> 00:42:21,839
might not be the answer we want it might

1215
00:42:25,750 --> 00:42:24,319
not be the answer the believers want nor

1216
00:42:28,309 --> 00:42:25,760
the skeptics it could be something

1217
00:42:30,550 --> 00:42:28,319
completely different far stranger than

1218
00:42:32,870 --> 00:42:30,560
we ever imagined or it could be as

1219
00:42:35,030 --> 00:42:32,880
mundane as you know

1220
00:42:37,589 --> 00:42:35,040
comp all weather anomalies or natural

1221
00:42:40,710 --> 00:42:37,599
phenomena um you know that's a huge

1222
00:42:42,069 --> 00:42:40,720
stretch but when it comes down to it

1223
00:42:44,150 --> 00:42:42,079
i think we have a

1224
00:42:47,109 --> 00:42:44,160
crucial decision you know do we do we

1225
00:42:49,190 --> 00:42:47,119
actually want to solve the ufo mystery

1226
00:42:51,829 --> 00:42:49,200
or do we want to continue to

1227
00:42:54,069 --> 00:42:51,839
to sort of perpetuate it it's it's

1228
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:54,079
fascinating and it says more about like

1229
00:42:57,670 --> 00:42:54,880
the

1230
00:42:59,030 --> 00:42:57,680
society and culture than anything

1231
00:43:00,950 --> 00:42:59,040
yeah but you know it's it's one of those

1232
00:43:02,550 --> 00:43:00,960
things i think i think if there was a

1233
00:43:05,270 --> 00:43:02,560
legitimate disclosure like let's you

1234
00:43:07,829 --> 00:43:05,280
know let's assume the government has

1235
00:43:09,589 --> 00:43:07,839
been actively studying ufos in some top

1236
00:43:11,270 --> 00:43:09,599
secret fashion that that you know only

1237
00:43:12,630 --> 00:43:11,280
they know about right yeah i don't think

1238
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:12,640
they need to i honestly don't i think

1239
00:43:17,109 --> 00:43:14,720
that you know we kind of recap ourselves

1240
00:43:19,349 --> 00:43:17,119
in in the ufo phenomenon just in the way

1241
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:19,359
we sort of ourselves live our life right

1242
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:20,480
you know like i talked about before

1243
00:43:24,150 --> 00:43:21,920
right we have this general fear of the

1244
00:43:25,430 --> 00:43:24,160
other and you know an intelligent other

1245
00:43:27,030 --> 00:43:25,440
that isn't human would be even worse so

1246
00:43:29,030 --> 00:43:27,040
i think we're kind of we're fine

1247
00:43:31,510 --> 00:43:29,040
ourselves to maintain some sort of

1248
00:43:33,510 --> 00:43:31,520
mystery or lie if there is one but um

1249
00:43:35,109 --> 00:43:33,520
you know that if assuming or or for

1250
00:43:36,790 --> 00:43:35,119
argument's sake that the government is

1251
00:43:37,990 --> 00:43:36,800
actually hiding some top secret study of

1252
00:43:39,750 --> 00:43:38,000
ufos

1253
00:43:41,829 --> 00:43:39,760
you know and that was released and said

1254
00:43:43,030 --> 00:43:41,839
yeah here's all all of our files and it

1255
00:43:44,790 --> 00:43:43,040
was done honestly here's actually

1256
00:43:46,309 --> 00:43:44,800
everything we have there's no bodies in

1257
00:43:47,829 --> 00:43:46,319
some area 51 basement or there's no

1258
00:43:49,430 --> 00:43:47,839
ships or anything we're just you know we

1259
00:43:51,589 --> 00:43:49,440
have been studying and we don't have an

1260
00:43:52,710 --> 00:43:51,599
answer right these things show up and

1261
00:43:54,230 --> 00:43:52,720
they do whatever they want and then they

1262
00:43:56,069 --> 00:43:54,240
leave and then there were you know we

1263
00:43:57,829 --> 00:43:56,079
can track them once

1264
00:43:59,430 --> 00:43:57,839
in a while and and that's it but they're

1265
00:44:01,030 --> 00:43:59,440
gone as quick as they come i think if

1266
00:44:03,829 --> 00:44:01,040
that happened and then suddenly you know

1267
00:44:05,750 --> 00:44:03,839
you had academic eight you know academic

1268
00:44:08,230 --> 00:44:05,760
schools universities you know scientific

1269
00:44:09,829 --> 00:44:08,240
organizations whatever start picking up

1270
00:44:11,589 --> 00:44:09,839
these studies and actually

1271
00:44:12,790 --> 00:44:11,599
scientifically studying them i think a

1272
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,800
lot of you i think you follow just would

1273
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:14,160
be out of a job you know i think because

1274
00:44:17,109 --> 00:44:15,920
what would happen is is it would leave

1275
00:44:19,430 --> 00:44:17,119
the realm of ufology right it would

1276
00:44:21,510 --> 00:44:19,440
become a general science and i don't

1277
00:44:23,670 --> 00:44:21,520
think the because the vast majority of

1278
00:44:25,430 --> 00:44:23,680
you follow just out there um the vast

1279
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,440
majority you know aren't in any way

1280
00:44:29,750 --> 00:44:27,520
scientifically trained or aren't in any

1281
00:44:32,230 --> 00:44:29,760
way um philosophically trained you know

1282
00:44:33,510 --> 00:44:32,240
what i mean like the vast majority of us

1283
00:44:35,750 --> 00:44:33,520
are are just people who just kind of

1284
00:44:37,109 --> 00:44:35,760
picked it up as a hobby and this hobby

1285
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:37,119
became this horrible monster which

1286
00:44:39,990 --> 00:44:38,240
became our life and then suddenly you

1287
00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:40,000
know we've identified uh you know

1288
00:44:43,430 --> 00:44:42,319
ourselves as being ufologists um i don't

1289
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:43,440
necessarily think you know we would be

1290
00:44:46,630 --> 00:44:44,880
the ones who would be hired you know

1291
00:44:48,710 --> 00:44:46,640
like would suddenly you know the you

1292
00:44:49,750 --> 00:44:48,720
know you know would suddenly mit be like

1293
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:49,760
okay yeah we're gonna start studying

1294
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:51,760
ufos uh so you know ufologists all of

1295
00:44:54,230 --> 00:44:52,800
you guys who've been selling ufos for

1296
00:44:55,910 --> 00:44:54,240
the last 30 years of your life you know

1297
00:44:57,589 --> 00:44:55,920
please apply like i don't think that

1298
00:44:59,109 --> 00:44:57,599
would happen right they would

1299
00:45:00,950 --> 00:44:59,119
send it to their in-house trained

1300
00:45:02,790 --> 00:45:00,960
engineers and scientists biologists

1301
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:02,800
chemists you know physicists whatever

1302
00:45:07,030 --> 00:45:04,240
and it would be done as an actual

1303
00:45:08,710 --> 00:45:07,040
scientific study um with their with sort

1304
00:45:10,950 --> 00:45:08,720
of their people right the people who are

1305
00:45:13,510 --> 00:45:10,960
within this elite scientific community

1306
00:45:15,190 --> 00:45:13,520
um so you know i think what would stop

1307
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:15,200
happening is ufo experts showing up on

1308
00:45:18,309 --> 00:45:16,800
history channel uh to be interviewed

1309
00:45:19,270 --> 00:45:18,319
right i think that would that would end

1310
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:19,280
right

1311
00:45:23,910 --> 00:45:21,520
the the reign of the ufo expert would

1312
00:45:25,510 --> 00:45:23,920
would probably collapse um because it's

1313
00:45:26,950 --> 00:45:25,520
no longer a mystery right it's now

1314
00:45:29,750 --> 00:45:26,960
something that's studied by the general

1315
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,760
sciences well put i mean

1316
00:45:34,870 --> 00:45:32,000
look at any government investigation

1317
00:45:37,030 --> 00:45:34,880
into ufos to date they all came back

1318
00:45:39,430 --> 00:45:37,040
with the same conclusions of

1319
00:45:41,270 --> 00:45:39,440
uh we don't know what's going on what we

1320
00:45:43,109 --> 00:45:41,280
do know is that it is not a threat to

1321
00:45:44,710 --> 00:45:43,119
national security and when it comes down

1322
00:45:47,270 --> 00:45:44,720
to it that's

1323
00:45:49,109 --> 00:45:47,280
that's what they deem an answer a

1324
00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:49,119
conclusion like this this isn't

1325
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:52,000
threatening us therefore we're no longer

1326
00:45:56,309 --> 00:45:54,000
going to investigate it pump millions of

1327
00:45:58,470 --> 00:45:56,319
dollars into it so you make a good point

1328
00:46:00,309 --> 00:45:58,480
it's a fantasy that we would be the ones

1329
00:46:02,150 --> 00:46:00,319
called upon when this all happens but

1330
00:46:04,470 --> 00:46:02,160
let's be honest you know i'm a

1331
00:46:06,069 --> 00:46:04,480
playwright living in new york city you

1332
00:46:09,589 --> 00:46:06,079
know i i

1333
00:46:12,550 --> 00:46:09,599
bartend at night that's what i do yes i

1334
00:46:15,109 --> 00:46:12,560
i'm absolutely fascinated by ufos

1335
00:46:17,270 --> 00:46:15,119
i make it my second job because i love

1336
00:46:20,150 --> 00:46:17,280
it and i have a passion to find answers

1337
00:46:21,990 --> 00:46:20,160
but they're not gonna call me uh when it

1338
00:46:23,109 --> 00:46:22,000
comes down to it to be like what do you

1339
00:46:24,870 --> 00:46:23,119
know

1340
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:24,880
exactly right because ultimately you

1341
00:46:30,470 --> 00:46:27,359
know the the facts that we have you know

1342
00:46:31,510 --> 00:46:30,480
i would i would say aren't facts right i

1343
00:46:34,470 --> 00:46:31,520
think they're i think they're

1344
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,480
theological or philosophical beliefs i i

1345
00:46:38,309 --> 00:46:36,720
i don't think we have really a lot of

1346
00:46:39,670 --> 00:46:38,319
hard data and again you know people

1347
00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:39,680
disagree with me right mufon i think

1348
00:46:43,750 --> 00:46:41,200
would be one of the first groups to say

1349
00:46:45,990 --> 00:46:43,760
you know what mj you are fired messed up

1350
00:46:47,190 --> 00:46:46,000
look at look at look at that's right um

1351
00:46:48,630 --> 00:46:47,200
look at our case management system look

1352
00:46:51,750 --> 00:46:48,640
at all that data and i would say you

1353
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:51,760
know maybe you know maybe that's data

1354
00:46:55,670 --> 00:46:53,839
but but honestly mj what has that done

1355
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:55,680
and that's not a slight against mufon

1356
00:46:59,109 --> 00:46:56,800
you look at like

1357
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:59,119
new fork you look at all these reporting

1358
00:47:03,109 --> 00:47:00,800
centers throughout the years what has

1359
00:47:05,990 --> 00:47:03,119
their data actually done to further the

1360
00:47:08,710 --> 00:47:06,000
study of ufos we we always hear

1361
00:47:11,430 --> 00:47:08,720
nothing has changed in the past 50 years

1362
00:47:13,109 --> 00:47:11,440
um i tend to disagree with that i think

1363
00:47:15,829 --> 00:47:13,119
you know um

1364
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:15,839
any new information is uh quote unquote

1365
00:47:20,710 --> 00:47:18,000
good information there has been some

1366
00:47:23,430 --> 00:47:20,720
progression in terms of what the what

1367
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:23,440
ufos are not um

1368
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:25,040
but uh

1369
00:47:31,270 --> 00:47:25,760
it's

1370
00:47:34,950 --> 00:47:31,280
these investigations by mufon but then

1371
00:47:37,190 --> 00:47:34,960
what what what what happens from there

1372
00:47:38,710 --> 00:47:37,200
yeah and and you know that that's that's

1373
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,720
a big question right that is that is the

1374
00:47:43,270 --> 00:47:40,800
big question like why hasn't anything

1375
00:47:45,990 --> 00:47:43,280
changed why hasn't ufology

1376
00:47:46,870 --> 00:47:46,000
been able to break through into some

1377
00:47:49,589 --> 00:47:46,880
sort of

1378
00:47:52,550 --> 00:47:49,599
standardization or into maybe some sort

1379
00:47:54,550 --> 00:47:52,560
of academic sphere or why hasn't been it

1380
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:54,560
been able to sort of puncture into the

1381
00:47:59,030 --> 00:47:56,480
mainstream sciences like what is going

1382
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:59,040
on right yeah and i think that that's

1383
00:48:02,390 --> 00:48:00,720
that's and again i'm gonna plug my blog

1384
00:48:04,309 --> 00:48:02,400
again i think that's kind of what my

1385
00:48:05,829 --> 00:48:04,319
blog is is trying to address right it's

1386
00:48:07,510 --> 00:48:05,839
not necessarily oh do you believe in

1387
00:48:08,550 --> 00:48:07,520
ufos or what are ufos because i'm not

1388
00:48:09,430 --> 00:48:08,560
sure if that's a question we can

1389
00:48:10,950 --> 00:48:09,440
currently answer right we don't

1390
00:48:14,309 --> 00:48:10,960
necessarily have the science right now

1391
00:48:16,309 --> 00:48:14,319
to be able to get to a solution

1392
00:48:18,550 --> 00:48:16,319
because science requires reproduction

1393
00:48:20,390 --> 00:48:18,560
and testing you know ufos don't do this

1394
00:48:21,990 --> 00:48:20,400
right um

1395
00:48:23,670 --> 00:48:22,000
but they do leave physical evidence

1396
00:48:24,870 --> 00:48:23,680
behind sometimes which is kind of this

1397
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:24,880
weird

1398
00:48:28,150 --> 00:48:26,240
this is what makes the mystery even

1399
00:48:30,549 --> 00:48:28,160
better right you know and

1400
00:48:32,630 --> 00:48:30,559
they leave stuff behind once in a while

1401
00:48:34,870 --> 00:48:32,640
and um and i think that

1402
00:48:38,549 --> 00:48:34,880
really where ufology needs to go

1403
00:48:40,069 --> 00:48:38,559
away from uh from sorry not away from i

1404
00:48:41,750 --> 00:48:40,079
think it needs to employ science i think

1405
00:48:44,150 --> 00:48:41,760
euphology needs science behind it but i

1406
00:48:45,589 --> 00:48:44,160
think it needs a lot more theory a lot

1407
00:48:48,549 --> 00:48:45,599
more critical theory a lot more

1408
00:48:51,750 --> 00:48:48,559
philosophy it needs this

1409
00:48:57,270 --> 00:48:54,790
why are scientists and governments not

1410
00:49:00,710 --> 00:48:57,280
officially and publicly looking into the

1411
00:49:02,150 --> 00:49:00,720
phenomenon of ufos right i think this is

1412
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:02,160
you know critical theory for all the

1413
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,680
listeners who don't know what it is is

1414
00:49:07,270 --> 00:49:05,359
it's a branch of philosophy that studies

1415
00:49:09,430 --> 00:49:07,280
sort of the power systems that are in

1416
00:49:11,349 --> 00:49:09,440
place in our world right so stuff like

1417
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:11,359
uh western liberal democracy capitalism

1418
00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,119
communism feminism gender studies

1419
00:49:16,790 --> 00:49:14,880
whatever all that stuff is clumped into

1420
00:49:18,549 --> 00:49:16,800
cultural theory or cultural studies and

1421
00:49:20,470 --> 00:49:18,559
critical theory i think ufology is

1422
00:49:23,349 --> 00:49:20,480
definitely needs to be studied in this

1423
00:49:25,349 --> 00:49:23,359
way um so what is preventing

1424
00:49:27,910 --> 00:49:25,359
the state and what is preventing the

1425
00:49:31,430 --> 00:49:27,920
scientific community from actively

1426
00:49:32,470 --> 00:49:31,440
looking into ufos and why are scientists

1427
00:49:33,589 --> 00:49:32,480
and

1428
00:49:35,349 --> 00:49:33,599
government

1429
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:35,359
officials and anyone who is actively

1430
00:49:39,190 --> 00:49:37,280
trying to push for this study why are

1431
00:49:42,950 --> 00:49:39,200
they being blackballed or why are they

1432
00:49:44,549 --> 00:49:42,960
sort of being laughed at and why do

1433
00:49:45,829 --> 00:49:44,559
anchors news anchors on on fox news and

1434
00:49:48,069 --> 00:49:45,839
cnn snicker

1435
00:49:50,230 --> 00:49:48,079
every time a ufo story pops up right and

1436
00:49:52,230 --> 00:49:50,240
why is it okay like why does the general

1437
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:52,240
public why do just you me and joe

1438
00:49:56,829 --> 00:49:55,680
six-pack sort of deem it okay that that

1439
00:49:59,829 --> 00:49:56,839
the study of

1440
00:50:02,230 --> 00:49:59,839
ufos is not acceptable right why is it

1441
00:50:04,470 --> 00:50:02,240
lunacy yeah and and i think that this is

1442
00:50:07,109 --> 00:50:04,480
this is the big question you know um and

1443
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:07,119
i don't know if science uh

1444
00:50:12,790 --> 00:50:08,720
is is where it needs to be for us to

1445
00:50:14,950 --> 00:50:12,800
actively study ufos properly but i think

1446
00:50:16,870 --> 00:50:14,960
that you know if if time and energy was

1447
00:50:18,150 --> 00:50:16,880
actually put into it right if if

1448
00:50:20,549 --> 00:50:18,160
scientific communities were actually

1449
00:50:23,109 --> 00:50:20,559
given funding to study ufos if they were

1450
00:50:25,109 --> 00:50:23,119
actually um given the opportunity and

1451
00:50:26,870 --> 00:50:25,119
the state actively did it you know i

1452
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:26,880
think this would be a different i think

1453
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:28,559
it might be a different beast you know

1454
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:30,400
blue book didn't work

1455
00:50:34,549 --> 00:50:33,200
grant a lot of state-run ufo

1456
00:50:36,790 --> 00:50:34,559
investigations didn't work but a lot of

1457
00:50:37,990 --> 00:50:36,800
people would say they were already

1458
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:38,000
when they first were first created kind

1459
00:50:41,349 --> 00:50:39,839
of kneecapped by the people who are

1460
00:50:43,430 --> 00:50:41,359
running them right i mean you know you

1461
00:50:44,870 --> 00:50:43,440
read heinek you know i love i love

1462
00:50:46,230 --> 00:50:44,880
heineken and his work and he talks about

1463
00:50:47,910 --> 00:50:46,240
when he worked on project blue book you

1464
00:50:49,910 --> 00:50:47,920
know every single

1465
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,920
military officer he worked with was a

1466
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:51,520
junior level officer they were all like

1467
00:50:54,549 --> 00:50:53,040
majors and captains like they didn't

1468
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:54,559
have a single colonel a single general

1469
00:50:57,109 --> 00:50:55,839
okay they had a left hand and a colonel

1470
00:50:59,589 --> 00:50:57,119
but you know they had all these junior

1471
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:59,599
officers who could they couldn't

1472
00:51:03,349 --> 00:51:01,520
requisition what requisition a car have

1473
00:51:05,270 --> 00:51:03,359
at the time to go visit a witness right

1474
00:51:06,390 --> 00:51:05,280
the the government like the military

1475
00:51:07,990 --> 00:51:06,400
just wouldn't give them funding to be

1476
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:08,000
like okay yeah i need to borrow a

1477
00:51:12,150 --> 00:51:10,079
company car for a couple hours sorry you

1478
00:51:13,510 --> 00:51:12,160
can't right and it's like well if you're

1479
00:51:14,870 --> 00:51:13,520
gonna kneecap it before it even starts

1480
00:51:16,150 --> 00:51:14,880
then this is you know we're not gonna

1481
00:51:17,430 --> 00:51:16,160
get anywhere and i think that this is

1482
00:51:18,790 --> 00:51:17,440
kind of where we're at right it's this

1483
00:51:20,870 --> 00:51:18,800
taboo

1484
00:51:23,510 --> 00:51:20,880
subject of nobody really wants to talk

1485
00:51:25,030 --> 00:51:23,520
about it um and nobody wants to study it

1486
00:51:25,829 --> 00:51:25,040
but i think there's a lot of interest in

1487
00:51:27,109 --> 00:51:25,839
it and i think there's a lot of people

1488
00:51:30,309 --> 00:51:27,119
who are probably concerned about it i

1489
00:51:31,750 --> 00:51:30,319
mean you know if we go to the nth degree

1490
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:31,760
to the belief let's go to the believer's

1491
00:51:36,230 --> 00:51:34,240
side for a second right and we go full

1492
00:51:37,510 --> 00:51:36,240
pull out uh yeah we go out full out you

1493
00:51:38,870 --> 00:51:37,520
know they're here

1494
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,880
all the time visiting us and they do it

1495
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,640
you know this is concerning right i

1496
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:42,000
think that this is freaks a lot of

1497
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,760
people out because they can do whatever

1498
00:51:46,790 --> 00:51:44,880
they want

1499
00:51:47,670 --> 00:51:46,800
and there is no way of stopping them

1500
00:51:48,470 --> 00:51:47,680
right

1501
00:51:50,790 --> 00:51:48,480
and

1502
00:51:52,150 --> 00:51:50,800
this is really problematic assuming you

1503
00:51:53,910 --> 00:51:52,160
know that's what's going on you know

1504
00:51:55,270 --> 00:51:53,920
again for argument's sake i

1505
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:55,280
i don't want to talk about my personal

1506
00:52:01,990 --> 00:51:58,960
beliefs because you know that's crazy

1507
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:02,000
yeah i mean in the same in the same vein

1508
00:52:08,069 --> 00:52:05,520
mj um we know that just like any sort of

1509
00:52:10,870 --> 00:52:08,079
strange or esoteric topic uh

1510
00:52:11,910 --> 00:52:10,880
there are those who claim to be experts

1511
00:52:14,309 --> 00:52:11,920
uh

1512
00:52:16,230 --> 00:52:14,319
and we know full well that's complete

1513
00:52:18,710 --> 00:52:16,240
[\h__\h] i mean i i can honestly say

1514
00:52:21,910 --> 00:52:18,720
straight up that when it comes to ufos i

1515
00:52:24,549 --> 00:52:21,920
have without hesitation stated

1516
00:52:27,589 --> 00:52:24,559
that i do not know what they are and i

1517
00:52:30,069 --> 00:52:27,599
do not know what they represent um yet

1518
00:52:32,870 --> 00:52:30,079
we are the ones who are considered ufo

1519
00:52:35,109 --> 00:52:32,880
quote-unquote experts um we both know

1520
00:52:37,030 --> 00:52:35,119
that's utter nonsense we have no clue

1521
00:52:40,069 --> 00:52:37,040
but that doesn't mean i'm going to stop

1522
00:52:42,790 --> 00:52:40,079
trying to find answers and i i guess my

1523
00:52:44,069 --> 00:52:42,800
my convoluted question in this uh

1524
00:52:47,510 --> 00:52:44,079
who

1525
00:52:50,150 --> 00:52:47,520
for the most credible and beneficial

1526
00:52:52,950 --> 00:52:50,160
information who out there in the ufo

1527
00:52:55,589 --> 00:52:52,960
quote unquote field inspires you who

1528
00:52:57,910 --> 00:52:55,599
someone uh you could steer us towards i

1529
00:53:02,309 --> 00:53:00,390
ryan's ryan sprague oh my god

1530
00:53:03,670 --> 00:53:02,319
stop no i'm just i'm just

1531
00:53:04,950 --> 00:53:03,680
um you know

1532
00:53:06,950 --> 00:53:04,960
god you know that's such a tough

1533
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,960
question right because

1534
00:53:09,990 --> 00:53:08,160
i think

1535
00:53:11,430 --> 00:53:10,000
i can tell you who inspires me

1536
00:53:13,510 --> 00:53:11,440
but i don't necessarily think they're

1537
00:53:15,990 --> 00:53:13,520
right you know what i mean absolutely i

1538
00:53:16,950 --> 00:53:16,000
can tell you who i think is is

1539
00:53:20,309 --> 00:53:16,960
um

1540
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,319
they're great writers they're great uh

1541
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:21,839
they have a lot of knowledge on the

1542
00:53:25,349 --> 00:53:24,079
subject of of sightings and and i think

1543
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:25,359
i mentioned this in one of my blog posts

1544
00:53:29,270 --> 00:53:27,520
this idea of the expert right what makes

1545
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,280
an expert an expert

1546
00:53:33,030 --> 00:53:31,440
it's all ideology maybe but we can

1547
00:53:34,870 --> 00:53:33,040
that's a later that's a later auxiliary

1548
00:53:37,750 --> 00:53:34,880
episode

1549
00:53:39,190 --> 00:53:37,760
the the problem with the expert is is

1550
00:53:40,549 --> 00:53:39,200
we're all kind of experts in what we

1551
00:53:42,630 --> 00:53:40,559
don't know and i think that's what that

1552
00:53:44,230 --> 00:53:42,640
what the ufo phenomenon is right we have

1553
00:53:47,030 --> 00:53:44,240
no idea what's going on and anyone who

1554
00:53:48,470 --> 00:53:47,040
says they do is crazy um sorry no

1555
00:53:50,150 --> 00:53:48,480
offense to everyone who thinks they know

1556
00:53:52,710 --> 00:53:50,160
what's going on but i'm gonna call it

1557
00:53:55,349 --> 00:53:52,720
you're crazy um because there is no

1558
00:53:57,589 --> 00:53:55,359
evidence to support anything of what's

1559
00:54:00,230 --> 00:53:57,599
actually going on we have stories and we

1560
00:54:02,870 --> 00:54:00,240
have uh some evidence once in a while

1561
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:02,880
but that doesn't prove anything right it

1562
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:04,400
doesn't prove you know that they're from

1563
00:54:08,549 --> 00:54:06,640
another dimension or that they are

1564
00:54:10,549 --> 00:54:08,559
intelligent or they are

1565
00:54:13,109 --> 00:54:10,559
uh you know from this particular star

1566
00:54:14,710 --> 00:54:13,119
system or whatever um you know the

1567
00:54:17,109 --> 00:54:14,720
people i really listen to and the people

1568
00:54:19,109 --> 00:54:17,119
i really read um you know

1569
00:54:20,870 --> 00:54:19,119
there's a handful um i'm excited for

1570
00:54:23,510 --> 00:54:20,880
somewhere in the skies that's for sure

1571
00:54:24,630 --> 00:54:23,520
um because i think you know your your

1572
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:24,640
potential book i mean i don't know

1573
00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:26,160
anything about it but i i only know the

1574
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:28,000
heading in the sub or the subtitle uh

1575
00:54:32,710 --> 00:54:30,240
which is you know a a huge uh a human

1576
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:32,720
what is a human expert uh

1577
00:54:37,190 --> 00:54:35,280
no uh approach yep human approach to an

1578
00:54:38,710 --> 00:54:37,200
alien phenomenon yeah and you know it's

1579
00:54:40,549 --> 00:54:38,720
beautiful because that that is kind of

1580
00:54:42,390 --> 00:54:40,559
where we're at right it's a human

1581
00:54:43,990 --> 00:54:42,400
approach to something that is totally

1582
00:54:45,270 --> 00:54:44,000
other and totally alien we don't have

1583
00:54:47,030 --> 00:54:45,280
any idea so i think you know i'm really

1584
00:54:50,230 --> 00:54:47,040
looking forward to that um

1585
00:54:53,670 --> 00:54:50,240
send me a copy absolutely i'll amazon it

1586
00:54:55,829 --> 00:54:53,680
otherwise um i really like micah hanks i

1587
00:54:58,950 --> 00:54:55,839
like micah hanks because i think he kind

1588
00:55:00,950 --> 00:54:58,960
of follows a lot of the same sort of

1589
00:55:03,910 --> 00:55:00,960
mentality you know potentially you and i

1590
00:55:06,069 --> 00:55:03,920
follow right right something is going on

1591
00:55:07,910 --> 00:55:06,079
i think we kind of can hit that nail on

1592
00:55:09,670 --> 00:55:07,920
the head right something strange is

1593
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:09,680
going on we just have no clue what it is

1594
00:55:13,589 --> 00:55:10,960
and i think that that's kind of my

1595
00:55:15,990 --> 00:55:13,599
position as well um you know do i think

1596
00:55:18,870 --> 00:55:16,000
ufos are things in the sky that people

1597
00:55:20,549 --> 00:55:18,880
kind of can't identify yes um

1598
00:55:21,829 --> 00:55:20,559
do i think that there's anything you

1599
00:55:22,870 --> 00:55:21,839
know do i think their aliens are you

1600
00:55:24,069 --> 00:55:22,880
know or do i think that it's

1601
00:55:26,549 --> 00:55:24,079
interdimensional beings or whatever i

1602
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:26,559
don't know right i i i don't know at all

1603
00:55:30,309 --> 00:55:27,839
and i think that that is kind of the

1604
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:30,319
best position to take in ufology um

1605
00:55:33,589 --> 00:55:31,359
because you can't prove anything

1606
00:55:35,910 --> 00:55:33,599
otherwise yeah so i would say you know

1607
00:55:38,230 --> 00:55:35,920
micah hanks is this great kind of uh

1608
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:38,240
public very public character in the ufo

1609
00:55:41,990 --> 00:55:40,559
world right um who actively kind of

1610
00:55:44,630 --> 00:55:42,000
promotes this message right you know

1611
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:44,640
ufology is not about speculation it's

1612
00:55:49,030 --> 00:55:46,640
not about speculating as to you know the

1613
00:55:51,030 --> 00:55:49,040
star system or or the or the type of uh

1614
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:51,040
you know warp drive these vehicles have

1615
00:55:54,150 --> 00:55:52,079
or whatever it's not about that right

1616
00:55:56,549 --> 00:55:54,160
it's it's about sort of why are people

1617
00:55:58,470 --> 00:55:56,559
seeing these things and and um you know

1618
00:56:00,309 --> 00:55:58,480
can we ever find an answer so i do like

1619
00:56:03,190 --> 00:56:00,319
micah hanks i like his grayling report i

1620
00:56:06,470 --> 00:56:03,200
i do really enjoy that show um i think

1621
00:56:08,069 --> 00:56:06,480
richard dolan um on a historical aspect

1622
00:56:10,309 --> 00:56:08,079
this guy kind of knows everything it's

1623
00:56:12,950 --> 00:56:10,319
ridiculous um i'm right now cutting

1624
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,960
through his um his recent book his ufos

1625
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:14,640
for the 21st century mind

1626
00:56:17,349 --> 00:56:15,599
you know

1627
00:56:19,270 --> 00:56:17,359
i think i think as like it's almost like

1628
00:56:21,910 --> 00:56:19,280
an encyclopedia right it's this general

1629
00:56:23,430 --> 00:56:21,920
overview of ufology since it's sort of

1630
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:23,440
inception and i think it's great i think

1631
00:56:26,069 --> 00:56:24,960
that no obviously it deals with a lot of

1632
00:56:27,990 --> 00:56:26,079
cases and it deals with a lot of

1633
00:56:29,190 --> 00:56:28,000
speculation at times um and that's

1634
00:56:30,230 --> 00:56:29,200
totally fine i mean that's that's the

1635
00:56:33,270 --> 00:56:30,240
point of the book though right it's to

1636
00:56:35,750 --> 00:56:33,280
offer this overview of the world of ufos

1637
00:56:37,829 --> 00:56:35,760
um you know do i necessarily agree with

1638
00:56:40,390 --> 00:56:37,839
some of some of mr dolan's sort of other

1639
00:56:42,470 --> 00:56:40,400
opinions in regards to what the ufos are

1640
00:56:44,710 --> 00:56:42,480
or who is driving the ufos let's say or

1641
00:56:46,950 --> 00:56:44,720
flying them you know i'm not sure if i

1642
00:56:48,390 --> 00:56:46,960
necessarily buy into all that but um i

1643
00:56:52,150 --> 00:56:48,400
think that from a

1644
00:56:54,870 --> 00:56:52,160
historical sort of um solid you know

1645
00:56:57,190 --> 00:56:54,880
well-researched ufological

1646
00:56:59,349 --> 00:56:57,200
side i think he's great um you know and

1647
00:57:03,030 --> 00:56:59,359
there's there's tons i guess sam and

1648
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:03,040
shannon at uh at into the fray love them

1649
00:57:06,390 --> 00:57:04,319
i could be honest i didn't know much

1650
00:57:08,789 --> 00:57:06,400
about bigfoot before and now i know more

1651
00:57:11,109 --> 00:57:08,799
about bigfoot than i care to

1652
00:57:12,870 --> 00:57:11,119
isn't that crazy man i'm the same way

1653
00:57:14,630 --> 00:57:12,880
you know yeah and it's funny hey like

1654
00:57:17,349 --> 00:57:14,640
because i think i think big foot is sort

1655
00:57:18,710 --> 00:57:17,359
of similar to ufos right yeah and that

1656
00:57:21,030 --> 00:57:18,720
you know he's kind of mysterious he

1657
00:57:22,950 --> 00:57:21,040
shows up or she shows up whenever he or

1658
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:22,960
she wants and then you know once in a

1659
00:57:25,270 --> 00:57:24,160
while they leave evidence right they

1660
00:57:27,190 --> 00:57:25,280
leave a footprint kicking around every

1661
00:57:28,630 --> 00:57:27,200
once in a while you know and you go

1662
00:57:29,990 --> 00:57:28,640
that's kind of interesting you know but

1663
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:30,000
the problem is you know i'm not sure if

1664
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,680
bigfoot could invade the planet and and

1665
00:57:35,270 --> 00:57:33,520
you know enslave us in some sort of you

1666
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,280
know cocoon like race where we just you

1667
00:57:39,190 --> 00:57:37,599
know our mindless zombies

1668
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:39,200
um you never know i don't know feels

1669
00:57:42,069 --> 00:57:40,960
bigfoot um yeah

1670
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:42,079
there's so many people out there but i

1671
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:44,079
guess the consistent ones you know i

1672
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:46,240
just mentioned uh chris rodkowski

1673
00:57:50,789 --> 00:57:47,760
obviously you know absolutely as a

1674
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:50,799
canadian ufologist the guy is

1675
00:57:54,870 --> 00:57:52,319
the guy is definitely a man of science

1676
00:57:56,710 --> 00:57:54,880
he is not he's just not sort of

1677
00:57:57,990 --> 00:57:56,720
he doesn't enjoy whimsy and he you know

1678
00:58:00,309 --> 00:57:58,000
like you know

1679
00:58:02,390 --> 00:58:00,319
but he is like this is like this is what

1680
00:58:04,309 --> 00:58:02,400
we know and and and it's this tiny

1681
00:58:06,549 --> 00:58:04,319
sliver and everything we don't know is

1682
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:06,559
this you know titanic of a

1683
00:58:10,069 --> 00:58:08,400
of a beast that is just you know waiting

1684
00:58:11,589 --> 00:58:10,079
around and like we know nothing about

1685
00:58:12,950 --> 00:58:11,599
what's going on but you know something

1686
00:58:14,309 --> 00:58:12,960
weird is going on right so i don't have

1687
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:14,319
to give props to chris

1688
00:58:18,950 --> 00:58:16,960
chris chris i have to add mj i mean

1689
00:58:21,670 --> 00:58:18,960
chris has called me out on [\h__\h] so

1690
00:58:23,750 --> 00:58:21,680
many times and that's what we need we

1691
00:58:25,750 --> 00:58:23,760
need someone there to sort of reign us

1692
00:58:27,990 --> 00:58:25,760
in when they can see we're getting a

1693
00:58:29,430 --> 00:58:28,000
little too out there you know

1694
00:58:31,829 --> 00:58:29,440
when you and i

1695
00:58:33,910 --> 00:58:31,839
uh again we're on the younger side we're

1696
00:58:35,750 --> 00:58:33,920
sort of we're we're still stumbling

1697
00:58:38,390 --> 00:58:35,760
we're trying to find our way in this

1698
00:58:42,069 --> 00:58:38,400
this field and um when we have people

1699
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:42,079
like chris uh like dolan to sort of

1700
00:58:46,309 --> 00:58:44,319
pull us back in and remind us like you

1701
00:58:48,789 --> 00:58:46,319
know go back to the facts look at the

1702
00:58:50,309 --> 00:58:48,799
history and then move forward

1703
00:58:52,950 --> 00:58:50,319
i can't tell you how many times i've

1704
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:52,960
been wrong and you have to be willing to

1705
00:58:55,589 --> 00:58:54,240
admit that and i think someone like

1706
00:58:57,510 --> 00:58:55,599
chris or

1707
00:58:59,829 --> 00:58:57,520
or dolan like these are people who are

1708
00:59:03,030 --> 00:58:59,839
willing to do that um oh for sure you

1709
00:59:05,030 --> 00:59:03,040
know and that's such a great way to uh

1710
00:59:06,950 --> 00:59:05,040
to approach it and you know dolan being

1711
00:59:09,270 --> 00:59:06,960
my publisher and micah having written

1712
00:59:10,630 --> 00:59:09,280
the forward for my book i'm so happy

1713
00:59:13,030 --> 00:59:10,640
that you brought those two up it makes

1714
00:59:15,349 --> 00:59:13,040
me feel more comfortable moving forward

1715
00:59:16,870 --> 00:59:15,359
with my own research um

1716
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,880
well yeah i mean you know there's

1717
00:59:21,190 --> 00:59:19,119
there's very few voices in the field of

1718
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:21,200
ufology that i would say sort of are

1719
00:59:26,470 --> 00:59:23,839
this middle ground right right

1720
00:59:28,230 --> 00:59:26,480
we we admit to saying yeah you know what

1721
00:59:30,069 --> 00:59:28,240
there is something strange going on but

1722
00:59:32,710 --> 00:59:30,079
we aren't prepared to kind of drink the

1723
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:32,720
kool-aid and go full out you know

1724
00:59:38,230 --> 00:59:35,839
full-out believer disclosurists you know

1725
00:59:40,309 --> 00:59:38,240
they're here they have ships and and

1726
00:59:41,510 --> 00:59:40,319
their bodies are buried in an area 51.

1727
00:59:43,430 --> 00:59:41,520
you know what i mean like there's this

1728
00:59:45,270 --> 00:59:43,440
it needs a middle ground i think and i

1729
00:59:46,549 --> 00:59:45,280
think that this is kind of where

1730
00:59:48,789 --> 00:59:46,559
you myself and some of these other

1731
00:59:50,789 --> 00:59:48,799
people kind of arrest

1732
00:59:51,990 --> 00:59:50,799
yeah because otherwise everything else

1733
00:59:54,069 --> 00:59:52,000
is speculation right we can only

1734
00:59:56,069 --> 00:59:54,079
speculate we can only speculate and like

1735
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:56,079
and the true

1736
01:00:01,190 --> 00:59:58,160
research is going to come from those who

1737
01:00:03,510 --> 01:00:01,200
aren't out there touting tv shows and

1738
01:00:05,349 --> 01:00:03,520
books and this like if people want to

1739
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:05,359
buy my book great if they want to read

1740
01:00:10,630 --> 01:00:08,160
your blog awesome i don't expect that i

1741
01:00:12,549 --> 01:00:10,640
don't give a you know i don't care how

1742
01:00:14,390 --> 01:00:12,559
well the book does this is what

1743
01:00:15,829 --> 01:00:14,400
information i got

1744
01:00:18,309 --> 01:00:15,839
and this is what i want to give to the

1745
01:00:20,870 --> 01:00:18,319
public uh whether you accept that or not

1746
01:00:23,109 --> 01:00:20,880
great um so i think the real research

1747
01:00:25,190 --> 01:00:23,119
does come from underground i know mike

1748
01:00:28,230 --> 01:00:25,200
has talked a lot about this as well

1749
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:28,240
it's those sort of not out there not

1750
01:00:32,309 --> 01:00:30,000
giving their names who are doing this

1751
01:00:34,309 --> 01:00:32,319
true research and that's what

1752
01:00:37,670 --> 01:00:34,319
counts it's the information it's not the

1753
01:00:40,150 --> 01:00:37,680
people whenever skeptics say ufology is

1754
01:00:41,829 --> 01:00:40,160
dead it's because they're looking at the

1755
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:41,839
people involved they're attacking the

1756
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:44,000
personalities and that's all it's based

1757
01:00:48,150 --> 01:00:46,480
on and in some ways i don't blame them

1758
01:00:49,990 --> 01:00:48,160
there's a lot of charlatans out there a

1759
01:00:51,910 --> 01:00:50,000
lot of quote unquote experts who say

1760
01:00:54,710 --> 01:00:51,920
they have all the answers like you said

1761
01:00:56,549 --> 01:00:54,720
earlier we cannot trust them um

1762
01:00:58,789 --> 01:00:56,559
so yeah i think the real work is being

1763
01:01:00,710 --> 01:00:58,799
done underground uh it's being done

1764
01:01:02,870 --> 01:01:00,720
independently and that comes with things

1765
01:01:04,950 --> 01:01:02,880
like tara obscura the ghrelian report

1766
01:01:06,630 --> 01:01:04,960
into the frame you know um i'm gonna

1767
01:01:07,589 --> 01:01:06,640
just keep naming them until you stop me

1768
01:01:08,390 --> 01:01:07,599
but um

1769
01:01:11,430 --> 01:01:08,400
again

1770
01:01:13,430 --> 01:01:11,440
that's what it is it's civilians it's

1771
01:01:15,990 --> 01:01:13,440
people on the ground who have

1772
01:01:17,750 --> 01:01:16,000
experienced these things or are relaying

1773
01:01:19,829 --> 01:01:17,760
that information that i think matter

1774
01:01:21,109 --> 01:01:19,839
most i don't know how you feel well i

1775
01:01:22,549 --> 01:01:21,119
mentioned that in my blog post when i

1776
01:01:24,549 --> 01:01:22,559
talked about sort of the ideology of

1777
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:24,559
science and sort of whether you know

1778
01:01:29,190 --> 01:01:27,119
ufology can fit into this ideology and

1779
01:01:31,109 --> 01:01:29,200
um you know i kind of ended it by saying

1780
01:01:32,390 --> 01:01:31,119
that you know really it's the grassroots

1781
01:01:33,430 --> 01:01:32,400
right that are going to make a

1782
01:01:35,190 --> 01:01:33,440
difference right here it's those

1783
01:01:37,750 --> 01:01:35,200
scientists and those thinkers and

1784
01:01:40,069 --> 01:01:37,760
philosophers and theorists and whoever

1785
01:01:41,430 --> 01:01:40,079
who are going to kind of

1786
01:01:43,750 --> 01:01:41,440
they don't necessarily worry about

1787
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,760
existing on the fringe a little bit and

1788
01:01:47,829 --> 01:01:45,440
and dealing with it and writing about it

1789
01:01:49,589 --> 01:01:47,839
and thinking about it because ufology as

1790
01:01:50,950 --> 01:01:49,599
much as much as science is needed it's a

1791
01:01:53,670 --> 01:01:50,960
thinking man's game or a thinking

1792
01:01:55,349 --> 01:01:53,680
woman's game um and

1793
01:01:57,750 --> 01:01:55,359
uh there definitely needs to be some

1794
01:02:01,030 --> 01:01:57,760
some critical thought put into you know

1795
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:01,040
this this field um that that has i don't

1796
01:02:05,030 --> 01:02:02,799
want to say run amok but a little bit

1797
01:02:07,430 --> 01:02:05,040
has kind of run amok into um like you

1798
01:02:09,109 --> 01:02:07,440
said right the shows and and uh the

1799
01:02:11,829 --> 01:02:09,119
documentaries are

1800
01:02:13,750 --> 01:02:11,839
you know uh that try to make people

1801
01:02:15,109 --> 01:02:13,760
money and whatever that being said on a

1802
01:02:16,990 --> 01:02:15,119
side note history channel if you do want

1803
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,000
to call me

1804
01:02:21,190 --> 01:02:18,880
www.tarabschera.net you can say contact

1805
01:02:23,190 --> 01:02:21,200
and i will take your money um

1806
01:02:25,190 --> 01:02:23,200
you know but it's it's you know it's one

1807
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:25,200
of those things um you know it

1808
01:02:28,230 --> 01:02:26,799
it gets that easy to become an expert

1809
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:28,240
right you know history channel gives you

1810
01:02:32,390 --> 01:02:30,000
a couple minutes of time and they put

1811
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:32,400
ufo expert on there and boom

1812
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:34,000
you're invited to congress and you're

1813
01:02:38,230 --> 01:02:37,200
invited to set for life all of the yes

1814
01:02:40,069 --> 01:02:38,240
yes

1815
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:40,079
and then your uh your hair just gets

1816
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:41,839
bigger and bigger it's funny i saw that

1817
01:02:44,309 --> 01:02:43,440
meme on facebook somebody posted it with

1818
01:02:47,109 --> 01:02:44,319
the

1819
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:47,119
funny actually his hair does get better

1820
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:48,880
bigger every season

1821
01:02:53,109 --> 01:02:50,559
like he's getting sucked up by a ufo

1822
01:02:54,630 --> 01:02:53,119
it's great it's beautiful yeah

1823
01:02:57,750 --> 01:02:54,640
oh man uh

1824
01:02:58,549 --> 01:02:57,760
mj uh sort of to cap it off there is um

1825
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:58,559
you know

1826
01:03:02,950 --> 01:03:01,200
do you see ufo activity

1827
01:03:05,030 --> 01:03:02,960
decreasing i don't know about you man

1828
01:03:07,109 --> 01:03:05,040
but like it seems like there are less

1829
01:03:09,349 --> 01:03:07,119
and less of these big cases out there

1830
01:03:12,549 --> 01:03:09,359
the last one i can really think of uh

1831
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:12,559
was chicago o'hare airport um and again

1832
01:03:18,470 --> 01:03:15,200
i'm looking at it strictly from

1833
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:18,480
uh perhaps ignorant western eyes these

1834
01:03:23,190 --> 01:03:20,240
things are happening all over the world

1835
01:03:26,230 --> 01:03:23,200
obviously you know huge in china huge in

1836
01:03:28,710 --> 01:03:26,240
brazil um even huge in canada you know

1837
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:28,720
being my northern neighbor i don't even

1838
01:03:33,349 --> 01:03:31,280
hear about cases out of canada a lot and

1839
01:03:35,750 --> 01:03:33,359
we're so focused on the united states

1840
01:03:39,029 --> 01:03:35,760
when it comes to this topic um

1841
01:03:41,990 --> 01:03:39,039
again do you see ufo activity um sort of

1842
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:42,000
waning um what does that say about us or

1843
01:03:46,870 --> 01:03:44,480
what does it say about the phenomenon i

1844
01:03:48,390 --> 01:03:46,880
don't know what do you think

1845
01:03:50,309 --> 01:03:48,400
you know i think there's i think there's

1846
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:50,319
a couple things i mean you know

1847
01:03:55,510 --> 01:03:53,280
one i think that a lot of ufo sightings

1848
01:03:56,789 --> 01:03:55,520
um a lot the vast majority of them you

1849
01:03:58,230 --> 01:03:56,799
know obviously aren't anything

1850
01:04:00,309 --> 01:03:58,240
interesting right there there's natural

1851
01:04:02,230 --> 01:04:00,319
phenomenon i think people generally are

1852
01:04:03,750 --> 01:04:02,240
becoming a little more aware of what's

1853
01:04:06,630 --> 01:04:03,760
out there in the skies

1854
01:04:07,990 --> 01:04:06,640
satellites space stations etc um so i

1855
01:04:09,910 --> 01:04:08,000
think we you know i think people are

1856
01:04:11,109 --> 01:04:09,920
generally a little more

1857
01:04:13,190 --> 01:04:11,119
are a little better educated as to

1858
01:04:14,950 --> 01:04:13,200
what's going on yeah not only that the

1859
01:04:16,630 --> 01:04:14,960
ability to access information on where

1860
01:04:17,990 --> 01:04:16,640
the space station is at a given time or

1861
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:18,000
what stars are out there or whatever you

1862
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,119
know there's an app for your phone right

1863
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,359
sky watch or sky view or whatever right

1864
01:04:25,670 --> 01:04:23,599
that you can literally track what's um

1865
01:04:26,789 --> 01:04:25,680
going on live you know i think that

1866
01:04:29,109 --> 01:04:26,799
really

1867
01:04:30,390 --> 01:04:29,119
helps reduce a lot of sighting reports

1868
01:04:32,470 --> 01:04:30,400
um i also think you know studying

1869
01:04:34,069 --> 01:04:32,480
reports are are sort of mythological in

1870
01:04:36,309 --> 01:04:34,079
nature right they're ideological in

1871
01:04:37,589 --> 01:04:36,319
nature people are watching television

1872
01:04:39,190 --> 01:04:37,599
people are on facebook people are

1873
01:04:40,309 --> 01:04:39,200
watching movies people are my cat just

1874
01:04:42,789 --> 01:04:40,319
walked in the room people are consuming

1875
01:04:45,029 --> 01:04:42,799
media it scared me sorry um people are

1876
01:04:46,950 --> 01:04:45,039
consuming more media and i think that

1877
01:04:48,870 --> 01:04:46,960
the you know ufo sightings are are

1878
01:04:50,789 --> 01:04:48,880
becoming this um

1879
01:04:52,309 --> 01:04:50,799
like myth that people believe in just

1880
01:04:53,589 --> 01:04:52,319
like people used to believe in i don't

1881
01:04:54,470 --> 01:04:53,599
know vampires and fairies and stuff like

1882
01:04:58,150 --> 01:04:54,480
that

1883
01:04:59,670 --> 01:04:58,160
i agree you know these massive sightings

1884
01:05:01,430 --> 01:04:59,680
that sort of are the bread and butter of

1885
01:05:03,910 --> 01:05:01,440
ufology right you mentioned chicago

1886
01:05:06,309 --> 01:05:03,920
o'hare which is such a great sighting

1887
01:05:07,750 --> 01:05:06,319
that you know there's no evidence really

1888
01:05:10,309 --> 01:05:07,760
to document it apart from witness

1889
01:05:12,069 --> 01:05:10,319
testimony but there's so many witnesses

1890
01:05:13,670 --> 01:05:12,079
um and not only that there's you know

1891
01:05:15,990 --> 01:05:13,680
radar or not radar sorry there's radio

1892
01:05:17,430 --> 01:05:16,000
recordings of of people

1893
01:05:18,870 --> 01:05:17,440
talking to each other about it you know

1894
01:05:19,829 --> 01:05:18,880
like i'm standing outside and staring at

1895
01:05:20,950 --> 01:05:19,839
this thing you can literally hear the

1896
01:05:22,549 --> 01:05:20,960
conversations people are having with

1897
01:05:24,470 --> 01:05:22,559
each other um because there's all this

1898
01:05:25,829 --> 01:05:24,480
all recorded that is a solid case and i

1899
01:05:27,990 --> 01:05:25,839
you know i wish we had another one one

1900
01:05:29,589 --> 01:05:28,000
of my favorite cases um that ever sort

1901
01:05:31,349 --> 01:05:29,599
of occurred ever in history because i

1902
01:05:34,390 --> 01:05:31,359
think that there is a lot of evidence in

1903
01:05:36,950 --> 01:05:34,400
regards to it is the 2007 alderney ufo

1904
01:05:40,309 --> 01:05:36,960
sighting which occurred over um the

1905
01:05:43,670 --> 01:05:40,319
english channel um you had a flight a

1906
01:05:45,910 --> 01:05:43,680
routine flight in 2007 um that was going

1907
01:05:47,430 --> 01:05:45,920
across the english channel and this guy

1908
01:05:49,910 --> 01:05:47,440
in his little plane

1909
01:05:52,549 --> 01:05:49,920
with whatever 20 passengers sees you

1910
01:05:54,870 --> 01:05:52,559
know these two objects um just hovering

1911
01:05:56,710 --> 01:05:54,880
there and then you know he asks tower or

1912
01:05:57,829 --> 01:05:56,720
asks the tower rather if there's you

1913
01:05:59,750 --> 01:05:57,839
know if there's anything on radar and

1914
01:06:02,150 --> 01:05:59,760
sure enough you know the guy is there on

1915
01:06:02,870 --> 01:06:02,160
radar and then the radar operator asks

1916
01:06:07,349 --> 01:06:02,880
for

1917
01:06:09,109 --> 01:06:07,359
aircraft if he has visual confirmation

1918
01:06:10,470 --> 01:06:09,119
on this and this guy's about 20 000 feet

1919
01:06:12,789 --> 01:06:10,480
high and he sees something right he

1920
01:06:14,230 --> 01:06:12,799
records yeah i see this sort of shining

1921
01:06:15,750 --> 01:06:14,240
object right and it's this beautiful

1922
01:06:18,309 --> 01:06:15,760
case where you have

1923
01:06:19,510 --> 01:06:18,319
where you have about 20 people on board

1924
01:06:22,630 --> 01:06:19,520
an aircraft

1925
01:06:24,630 --> 01:06:22,640
see it including the pilot you have a

1926
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:24,640
radar operator who gets several radar

1927
01:06:27,349 --> 01:06:25,920
hits and they're kind of ghosting right

1928
01:06:30,069 --> 01:06:27,359
they're not a consistent hit it's kind

1929
01:06:32,230 --> 01:06:30,079
of in and out but enough that you know

1930
01:06:34,789 --> 01:06:32,240
i i get you get a ghost once in a while

1931
01:06:36,230 --> 01:06:34,799
but you know consistent radar ghosts

1932
01:06:38,789 --> 01:06:36,240
over a short period of time that's

1933
01:06:40,549 --> 01:06:38,799
pretty good uh followed by confirmation

1934
01:06:43,190 --> 01:06:40,559
from another pilot who is on a separate

1935
01:06:45,510 --> 01:06:43,200
flight you know at a different altitude

1936
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,520
i mean this is one of those ufo case

1937
01:06:48,789 --> 01:06:47,760
that you know i wish we had another one

1938
01:06:51,270 --> 01:06:48,799
for you know what i mean i wish one

1939
01:06:52,789 --> 01:06:51,280
would pop up soon because this is one of

1940
01:06:55,510 --> 01:06:52,799
those cases that that

1941
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:55,520
is just it's so unknown

1942
01:07:00,309 --> 01:06:58,160
and the information and the details that

1943
01:07:03,349 --> 01:07:00,319
are presented are all there you have so

1944
01:07:05,670 --> 01:07:03,359
many witnesses you have radar you have a

1945
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:05,680
second pilot like you this is one of

1946
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:06,960
those ufo cases where you kind of go

1947
01:07:10,710 --> 01:07:08,559
this is mind-blowing like this how does

1948
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:10,720
this happen and how does no one sort of

1949
01:07:14,069 --> 01:07:12,480
properly look into this like how does

1950
01:07:15,190 --> 01:07:14,079
how does no government i mean maybe they

1951
01:07:17,029 --> 01:07:15,200
do who knows you know the british secret

1952
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:17,039
service mi6 or am i five or whatever

1953
01:07:20,069 --> 01:07:18,880
right you know um maybe they did look

1954
01:07:23,190 --> 01:07:20,079
into it but

1955
01:07:26,470 --> 01:07:23,200
it it's such a beautiful example of a

1956
01:07:28,630 --> 01:07:26,480
case similar to chicago o'hare um

1957
01:07:29,829 --> 01:07:28,640
that you wish you know you could just

1958
01:07:30,870 --> 01:07:29,839
wish you could be there for one you know

1959
01:07:33,430 --> 01:07:30,880
what i mean like you wish you'd just be

1960
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:33,440
like i was there when it happened um but

1961
01:07:36,630 --> 01:07:35,039
i don't know i i do i think that that

1962
01:07:37,910 --> 01:07:36,640
sightings are are waning i don't know i

1963
01:07:39,270 --> 01:07:37,920
think individual sightings will never

1964
01:07:41,349 --> 01:07:39,280
win i think they'll probably go up and

1965
01:07:43,190 --> 01:07:41,359
down you know the canadian ufo report

1966
01:07:45,510 --> 01:07:43,200
that chris churkowski does um you know

1967
01:07:48,150 --> 01:07:45,520
stats are up in canada yeah people are

1968
01:07:49,589 --> 01:07:48,160
seeing more ufos in canada than than

1969
01:07:51,109 --> 01:07:49,599
previous years

1970
01:07:52,549 --> 01:07:51,119
so you know in canada i would say you

1971
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:52,559
know obviously at least the numbers say

1972
01:07:56,630 --> 01:07:54,799
they're not going down

1973
01:07:58,150 --> 01:07:56,640
but that's exciting

1974
01:08:00,069 --> 01:07:58,160
but i think you know and people are

1975
01:08:01,029 --> 01:08:00,079
getting smarter people are are being a

1976
01:08:02,710 --> 01:08:01,039
little more critical of what they're

1977
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:02,720
seeing people are able to check what

1978
01:08:05,589 --> 01:08:04,160
they're seeing they don't have to see

1979
01:08:06,710 --> 01:08:05,599
something and then write a letter and

1980
01:08:09,029 --> 01:08:06,720
wait two weeks for them to get a

1981
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:09,039
response from some society

1982
01:08:12,309 --> 01:08:10,640
that you know yeah it was a meteor or

1983
01:08:14,789 --> 01:08:12,319
not or whatever right you know this

1984
01:08:16,309 --> 01:08:14,799
information is all instant yeah

1985
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:16,319
yeah so i hope i hope really what

1986
01:08:18,709 --> 01:08:17,279
happens because i deal with like i said

1987
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:18,719
i'm a muslim investigator so i deal with

1988
01:08:22,390 --> 01:08:19,679
a lot of

1989
01:08:23,829 --> 01:08:22,400
chinese lanterns and venus and um

1990
01:08:25,669 --> 01:08:23,839
international space stations flying by

1991
01:08:26,950 --> 01:08:25,679
and people saying they're seeing ufos i

1992
01:08:28,229 --> 01:08:26,960
i really

1993
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:28,239
can't stress enough you know for people

1994
01:08:32,550 --> 01:08:30,480
who do have a sighting look online first

1995
01:08:34,470 --> 01:08:32,560
you know go online and see

1996
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:34,480
you know was the space station

1997
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:36,799
over me at this time or was it a flight

1998
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:39,040
you know flight radar is a great website

1999
01:08:42,470 --> 01:08:40,560
it tracks flights live and you can go

2000
01:08:43,990 --> 01:08:42,480
back a week to see you know if anything

2001
01:08:45,510 --> 01:08:44,000
has was overhead at the time like these

2002
01:08:46,789 --> 01:08:45,520
are the tools of the ufo investigator

2003
01:08:48,390 --> 01:08:46,799
and and i think people need to

2004
01:08:50,070 --> 01:08:48,400
definitely sort of use them weather

2005
01:08:51,669 --> 01:08:50,080
underground for strange you know weather

2006
01:08:53,510 --> 01:08:51,679
phenomena and stuff like that these are

2007
01:08:55,829 --> 01:08:53,520
great sites and tools that people can

2008
01:08:58,390 --> 01:08:55,839
use to sort of track their own ufo

2009
01:09:00,950 --> 01:08:58,400
sighting before making a report

2010
01:09:03,430 --> 01:09:00,960
yes yeah i mean people have mistaken the

2011
01:09:04,470 --> 01:09:03,440
moon for a ufo and you come

2012
01:09:06,950 --> 01:09:04,480
you know make sure to check where the

2013
01:09:09,349 --> 01:09:08,229
but you know honest mistakes happen as

2014
01:09:10,470 --> 01:09:09,359
well and

2015
01:09:11,829 --> 01:09:10,480
you know what i mean that's that's the

2016
01:09:13,430 --> 01:09:11,839
job of the field investigator right is

2017
01:09:15,510 --> 01:09:13,440
to kind of get in there and try to find

2018
01:09:18,789 --> 01:09:15,520
those mistakes in

2019
01:09:20,149 --> 01:09:18,799
regards to actual sightings um right and

2020
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:20,159
i'm sure it makes your job more

2021
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:22,080
frustrating when it's just turns out to

2022
01:09:26,550 --> 01:09:23,920
be one of those things but wouldn't you

2023
01:09:28,709 --> 01:09:26,560
rather have someone report something

2024
01:09:30,709 --> 01:09:28,719
possibly unknown than

2025
01:09:32,630 --> 01:09:30,719
not reported at all you know you know

2026
01:09:34,309 --> 01:09:32,640
true and but then you kind of go back to

2027
01:09:35,990 --> 01:09:34,319
the old you know what we started off

2028
01:09:37,510 --> 01:09:36,000
this interview talking about right is

2029
01:09:39,590 --> 01:09:37,520
can we actually figure out what it is

2030
01:09:41,189 --> 01:09:39,600
yeah yeah you know you know we have

2031
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:41,199
chicago o'hare like you said you know do

2032
01:09:44,950 --> 01:09:42,880
we actually know what happened or we

2033
01:09:46,709 --> 01:09:44,960
have alderney the older ufo sighting i

2034
01:09:48,709 --> 01:09:46,719
mean do we actually know what happened

2035
01:09:50,870 --> 01:09:48,719
and can we prove it like can we actually

2036
01:09:52,709 --> 01:09:50,880
sit down and can science actually you

2037
01:09:54,870 --> 01:09:52,719
know run through it and figure out what

2038
01:09:57,910 --> 01:09:54,880
it was no of course not right now we

2039
01:09:59,590 --> 01:09:57,920
can't so it's this weird catch 22. it

2040
01:10:02,470 --> 01:09:59,600
really is yeah i mean that that's a

2041
01:10:04,470 --> 01:10:02,480
fascinating case by the way mj i see and

2042
01:10:05,990 --> 01:10:04,480
i've never heard of that one and that's

2043
01:10:07,510 --> 01:10:06,000
what it's about you know it's

2044
01:10:08,790 --> 01:10:07,520
mind-blowing and it's funny because a

2045
01:10:10,550 --> 01:10:08,800
lot of people haven't because it's out

2046
01:10:12,310 --> 01:10:10,560
of the uk and it didn't get very much

2047
01:10:13,750 --> 01:10:12,320
coverage or very much i mean it did for

2048
01:10:16,149 --> 01:10:13,760
you know the few weeks when it happened

2049
01:10:18,709 --> 01:10:16,159
and whatever but apart from that it's

2050
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:18,719
it's like no one's really talking about

2051
01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:21,600
these cases that are actually

2052
01:10:25,669 --> 01:10:23,440
interesting you know i love the roswell

2053
01:10:27,830 --> 01:10:25,679
situation roswell's great but you know

2054
01:10:29,110 --> 01:10:27,840
what evidence really is there and most

2055
01:10:31,270 --> 01:10:29,120
of the evidence that we have is the

2056
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,280
evidence is missing yep or it was taken

2057
01:10:35,669 --> 01:10:33,840
away by the powers of the be

2058
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,679
whereas in you know the 2007 alderney

2059
01:10:39,990 --> 01:10:37,440
ufo sighting

2060
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:40,000
none of that's missing right the radar

2061
01:10:43,669 --> 01:10:42,000
hits are all out there you can see them

2062
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:43,679
on the internet you can watch the videos

2063
01:10:48,390 --> 01:10:46,320
you can literally see you know the the

2064
01:10:49,910 --> 01:10:48,400
the radar information you can listen to

2065
01:10:51,750 --> 01:10:49,920
the audio between

2066
01:10:53,189 --> 01:10:51,760
all three or the two pilots on the radar

2067
01:10:54,870 --> 01:10:53,199
and the radio tower you know you can

2068
01:10:56,950 --> 01:10:54,880
hear witness test it's all public right

2069
01:10:59,830 --> 01:10:56,960
no one has hidden anything there's no

2070
01:11:01,750 --> 01:10:59,840
data missing there's no pieces of

2071
01:11:03,110 --> 01:11:01,760
alien craft in some bunker somewhere you

2072
01:11:04,790 --> 01:11:03,120
know like this is one of those cases

2073
01:11:06,790 --> 01:11:04,800
where everything is only open so anyone

2074
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:06,800
can investigate or anyone can look at it

2075
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,120
and and the data is good you know the

2076
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:11,120
data is generally good

2077
01:11:16,870 --> 01:11:13,120
that's incredible i'm gonna i'm gonna

2078
01:11:19,030 --> 01:11:16,880
have to look into that one yeah gts that

2079
01:11:21,110 --> 01:11:19,040
um wow mj this

2080
01:11:23,110 --> 01:11:21,120
thank you so much man it's been such a

2081
01:11:25,030 --> 01:11:23,120
pleasure having you with us today one

2082
01:11:27,910 --> 01:11:25,040
more time where can we find your work

2083
01:11:29,189 --> 01:11:27,920
taraobskura.net

2084
01:11:30,950 --> 01:11:29,199
thank you so much this has been tons of

2085
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:30,960
fun right good i'm glad you had a good

2086
01:11:35,990 --> 01:11:34,000
time again it's so it's so exciting to

2087
01:11:38,870 --> 01:11:36,000
have someone with such a fresh

2088
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:38,880
perspective um who has some humility

2089
01:11:42,550 --> 01:11:40,880
with the topic as well and is willing to

2090
01:11:45,590 --> 01:11:42,560
go those links to

2091
01:11:47,430 --> 01:11:45,600
tell their honest opinion but also rely

2092
01:11:49,430 --> 01:11:47,440
on the facts so i have to thank you for

2093
01:11:51,990 --> 01:11:49,440
what you've done for the field uh what

2094
01:11:53,510 --> 01:11:52,000
you'll continue to do and uh thank you

2095
01:11:54,600 --> 01:11:53,520
so much for joining us thank you very

2096
01:11:59,440 --> 01:11:54,610
much

2097
01:11:59,960 --> 01:11:59,450
[Music]

2098
01:12:12,900 --> 01:11:59,970
[Applause]

2099
01:12:13,610 --> 01:12:12,910
[Music]

2100
01:12:16,149 --> 01:12:13,620
[Applause]

2101
01:12:18,070 --> 01:12:16,159
[Music]

2102
01:12:20,149 --> 01:12:18,080
somewhere in the skies is produced by

2103
01:12:22,070 --> 01:12:20,159
third kind productions in association

2104
01:12:23,669 --> 01:12:22,080
with the entertainment one podcast